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US Navy Sailor Seaman Ratings

Discussion in 'Naval Warfare in the Pacific' started by geahanse, May 10, 2014.

  1. geahanse

    geahanse New Member

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    The US Navy had sailors whose ratings were Seaman First Class, Seaman Second Class, etc and then there was Boatswain's Mate Second Class, Machinist's Mate First Class and all others. I don't quite understand how this worked. So a sailor could be just a plain Seaman, and if he becomes a petty officer then his title is Petty Officer 3rd Class? Or a sailor could graduate boot camp and be an Electricians Mate Third Class/Radioman Third Class/etc. which is a petty officer with the same rank as a Seaman who had to work his way to promotion to a Petty Officer? Or a sailor could become a Seaman after boot camp and be "striking" to become an Electricians Mate? I guess I don't fully understand the Seaman rating and how they don't have a skill. What would they do on ships and how come some sailors skip the seaman rating??
     
  2. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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  3. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Just think of a Seaman First Class as a Private First Class (PFC), the others are lower than that rank. Nowadays, it is Seaman Recruit (SR), Seaman Apprentice (SA) and Seaman (SN). They obviously changed that because of the confusion between seaman and petty officers.

    Rated sailors (Machinist Mate, Bosun Mate, etc) are Petty Officers, which are Non-Comms (corporal, sergeants, etc.). You don't usually address them by the rating (bosun, etc), but by the rank - Petty Officer 3rd, 2nd, 1st...
     
  4. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Without getting into programs in which one might be commissioned upon completing a basic training program as a seaman (and there were several of these), it should be noted that recruits and draftees are subject to repetitive testing to determine general, or even specific, aptitude. One might expect that if a given seaman recruit, i.e., one still in recruit camp, merely rates as average, he might expect to be sent to the Fleet as a seaman. Those testing out with higher aptitude might be sent to any one of several schools the completion of which would result a rating as a 3d class petty officer in some specific technical field.

    Further, beginning in early 1942, if qualified from civilian experience, one might exit recruit training with a 3rd class rating.

    Perusing just the February 1942 Bureau of Navigation Bulletin one finds all kinds of reference to seamen recruits and potential to higher rank upon completion of training programs. On page 40 one finds the announcement referred to in the paragraph immediately above:

    “Naval Training Stations have been notified that enlisted men who have had previous technical training may be advanced to the lowest petty officer grades upon completion of training as recruits.
    “Heretofore, recruits have not been rated until completion of four months’ service.
    “The notification reads in part: ‘On completion of recruit training authorized advance to lowest petty officer grade regular and reserve recruits whose previous service or civilian occupation indicate adequate technical qualification to meet requirement for rates in accordance Bureau of Navigation Manual.’”

    Earlier pages have reference to various programs where one might be directly rated as a petty officer or even chief petty officer, again, not to mention officer training programs where individuals start as seamen, such as the V-5, V-7, and V-12 programs. For example, on page 24:

    “Lieutenant Commander J. J. “Gene” Tunney, U.S. Naval Reserve, the Navy’s Director of Physical Education and undefeated former world’s heavyweight boxing champion, recently began another tour in search for instructors needed to carry out the Navy’s enlarged physical educational program.
    “Lieutenant Commander Tunney’s tour will take him to all corners of the United States to interview applicants for positions of physical instructors.
    “Each applicant will be interview(ed) by Lieutenant Commander Tunney and his assistant Lieutenant (junior grade) W. I. Leckie, U.S.N.R., at the main recruiting stations in each of the country’s large cities.
    “Accepted applicants will be enlisted as Chief Specialist (Athletic) (Acting Appointment), U. S. Naval Reserve. Applicants must be graduates of an accredited college or university and hold a Bachelor’s Degree in Physical Education. Unmarried men are preferred by married men will be considered in some cases.”

    So, instant Chief Petty Officer . . . read on . . . from the same page

    “Change in rating of Physical Instructors, U.S.N.R.:
    “The rating of physical instructors, U. S. Naval Reserve, has been changed from that of Chief Boatswain’s Mate (Acting Appointment), Class V-6, U.S. Naval Reserve, to that of Chief Specialist (A) (Acting Appointment), Class V-6, U.S. Naval Reserve.
    “The badge for the new rating has not been established at the time of this writing. This change was effected in order to better distinguish the physical instructors enlisted in the Physical Fitness Program of the Navy from the regular line Chief Boatswain’s Mate. Likewise, the ratings of the several boxing instructors previously have been changed from Boatswain’s Mate, First Class, to Specialists, First Class, for the same reason.”

    Sounds more like to me that the Boatswain/ Boatswain’s Mate mafia bended the ear of someone wearing stars and wielding a mighty pen with the complaint of, ”we don’t want dose guys wearin’ our rating.”

    The June 1942 issue of the bulletin has on page 55:
    “Navy Establishes Ratings for Transport Airmen:
    “Navy billets are waiting for a limited number of men who are trained in various phases of scheduled air transport work.
    “A new division of the “Specialist” rating, to be designated by the letter “V”, has been established for transport airmen, and men who are qualified may enlist in petty officer or chief petty officer ratings - - Chief Specialist (V), or specialist first, second, or third class, depending on their experience.
    “Men who are accepted will be assigned to the Naval Air Transport Service, which was organized early this year for the purpose of providing scheduled air transportation for Navy personnel and cargo in connection with Naval activities. Applicants must have wide experience in operation of airports, servicing and loading of planes, etc.”

    So, go through basic and instant petty officer or even chief petty officer . . . if one is qualified.

    When one considers the number of specialties, the ability to move recruits directly into the petty officer rates based on either already established qualifications or upon completing specialized schooling immediately following basic training seems to be a pretty commonplace. The Army did pretty much the same thing except it used a separate specialist technician rank system (these were the guys with the “T” under their stripes).

    I commend to your perusal the “Bureau of Navigation Bulletin”, published monthly until July 1942 when it became the “Bureau of Naval Personnel Information Bulletin” and then its follow-on, “All Hands” which began publication in June 1945. Together this series, published monthly (except for January 1942 - seems everyone was just a bit distracted and there was no issue that month) provide lots of obscure info on personnel matters in the wartime Navy. These are available on line here with issues from August 1922 through December 2011 available through this one link:
    http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/department_arch1922.html

    The WWII years specifically start with this link:
    http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/department_arch1940.html

    You might also want to look at this link for information on ratings. Just about anything you’d want to know rates and ranks. There is also a brief description of the various “V-#” programs.
    http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/Ranks&Rates/index.html

    R
     
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  5. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    As always, your information is useful and fun to read. Interesting material. It explains things without resorting to jargon. Thanks.
     
  6. geahanse

    geahanse New Member

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    Thank you. So to make sure I got this right, if one became a seaman 3rd Class then when he becomes a petty officer, he would be petty officer third class? What would a petty officer first, second or third class in the seaman rating be responsible for?
     
  7. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    Lower numbers are higher rates

    Higher to lower:

    Chief Petty Officer
    Petty Officer 1c
    Petty Officer 2c
    Petty Officer 3c
    Seaman 1c
    Seaman 2c
    Apprentice Seaman

    Generally an Apprentice Seaman completes basic as a Sea2c or if a real performer as a Sea1c. If going off to one of the ratings schools, you’d go as a Sea1c. The Sea2c’s go to the Fleet for wherever needed as do any Sea1c’s not going to a rating school (there were not many of these, comparatively). One should expect to spend four to six months as a Sea2c and then be promoted to Sea1c. A Sea1c could request assignment to a rating school or if the opportunity arises aboard ship, “strike”, that is, be trained, for certain ratings. The more esoteric the field, the more likely one would have to attend a school rather than strike for a rating aboard ship. Still, not all that unusual. A gent of my acquaintance, who has since passed, was assigned as a Sea2c to a fighter squadron aboard a carrier in early 1941. He made Sea1c and struck for an AAM rating. He learned what he needed to learn to pass the test & by the time his carrier was sunk in June 1942 he was an AMM3c. Worked his way up & by the end of the war he was an AMM1c. Got out, played civilian life for good while, went back in and eventually retired in the 60’s a Chief Petty Officer.

    Really, Sea2c was a place holder rank whilst awaiting better things or a place to which one was sent if one was naughty. Similar situation existed amongst the NAPs. A Sea2c or Sea1c could apply for flight school and if accepted would go through at his existing rate. Upon graduation, he was a Naval Aviation Pilot with the rate of AP1c – and, yes, other petty officers of other rates were also NAPs, upon completing flight school they would be automatically bumped to the 1st class of their rates. Point being there was no rate of AP3c, it did not exist, and the AP2c rate was reserved for someone with a disciplinary problem not serious enough to have them tossed from the service.
     
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  8. geahanse

    geahanse New Member

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    But we're there any seaman first class that became petty officers as a Seaman and held the rating of petty officer third class, with no specialty either because they never "striked" or got training? If so, what were there jobs?
     
  9. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

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    No, there weren't. You pretty much had to a specialty to be a petty officer, or to put another way, all petty officers were rated in some specialty. Again, see the www.ibiblio link above and you can see the progression from Seaman Apprentice through Chief Petty Officer in each of the groups and specialties therein.
     
  10. squidly the octopus

    squidly the octopus New Member

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    If I may pick this back up, there is no enlisted person at the paygrade of E-4 (Petty Officer 3rd Class) or higher in the USN, then or now, who is not rated in some specialty or another, and more often than not is listed with the abbreviation for that rating, and less often listed as PO3. i.e. EM3 (Electrician's Mate 3rd Class), GM3 (Gunner's Mate 3rd Class) MS3 (Mess Specialist 3rd Class), ST3 (Sonar Technician 3rd Class), ET3 (Electronics Technician 3rd Class), OS3 (Operations Specialist 3rd Class) and so on and so on through dozens of ratings. Operations Specialist, if you are wondering, are the guys who sit around at the radar displays in the dark room you see in the movies, properly called Combat Information Center or CIC for short.

    The closest thing to a sailor achieving PO3 without some "specialty" as you put it (or rating as it's called) would be Bosun's Mate 3rd Class (BM3), as the job would not be far afield from what he would have been doing as a deck seaman.... however.... BM3, and all bosun's mates, are required to be proficient with everything related to deck operations, block and tackle (mooring and whatnot), underway replenishment, manning the ship's helm, handling and maintenance of small boats, etc. etc.... any bosun's mates reading this are most likely annoyed with me for saying they aren't specialized, because in fact they are, but the point is deck seamen are already involved with that work when they are not rated, whereas a deck seaman most likely isn't going to be involved with the work pertaining to other non-bosun mate ratings while he is a deck seaman.* Although once a seaman "strikes" for a rating he may or may not be assigned to the appropriate division on board while he is not yet a petty officer. A division in the USN is very different from one in the Army, it may consist of only a dozen guys, or a couple hundred, depends on the ship and the division. The largest division on board most any USN ship is Deck Division (which includes the aforementioned Bosun's Mates and deck seamen).

    *But then this is also true of a Fireman (same E3 paygrade as a Seaman only he works in the engineering spaces down below) when he moves up to Machinist's Mate (MM) or Hull Technician (HT) or one of the other engineering ratings. Being called a Fireman doesn't mean fighting fires is his job specialty per se (although he is a fireman in the event of a fire on board the ship) but means he works in engineering, so he would have already become acquainted with the work of the engineering ratings. I guess the Fireman moniker goes back to the days when ships burned coal and they had to load it in there.
     
  11. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    In the sail navies men going to sea for the first time were "Landsmen". If they survived they would be rated "Seamen" and with time and a demonstration of ability they could be promoted to "Able Seamen". This is, I believe, the origin of "Seaman Recruit", "Seaman Apprentice" and "Seaman".

    If they want to specialize they would "strike" for certain job such a s gunner's mate, boatswain's mate, cooper, etc.
     

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