USA won World War Two and saved England ?

Oh I dunno...looks perfectly serviceable from here?

 

A gentleman always wears a pullover plus a vest and finely knitted underpants even in the desert. We can't have standards slipping you know - wouldn't want to look like the natives. It would not be British

 

Its kind of hard to make this call. More so then Boots on the ground the United States gave HUGE amounts of money and material to the UK and Russia. (For example they gave the Russians enough food to give every soldier one meal a day for a full year in 43.)

So the question is how much of an impact did these resources have. Some people argue that it was because of these resources that the UK and Russia stayed afloat. And it very well could be. We know lack of resources was a big issue for the Germans. Let me ask this. How well would the Germans have done if they had been supplied by the States. Getting unlimited Fuel, Food and Ammo?

That might put it in perspective better.

 

This is totally meaningless

 

Very questionable statement,because

a) it is implying that the SU was supplied by the US

it is implying that the US had available unlimited fuel,food and ammo : such thing does not exist

c) it is ignoring the transport problems : it is not enough to have "unlimited" resources: you have to transport them

d) it is ignoring what the SU needed :did the SU need "unlimited" fuel,etc..?

 

I don't think many of your objections are relevant. Indeed I don't even see the implications that you thing are there. Certainly the SU was supplied by the US to an extent. I don't see where there is any implication that the US had unlimited resources. The transport question looks to me to simply be irrelevant to the question asked as does your final coment about the needs of the USSR.

 

Just tossing aside the United States economic aid as "meaningless" is a fairly goofy thing to say. The United States supplied billions of dollars (1940s dollars) of material to the UK and Russia. The US opened 3 main supply routes to the Russia. See the video below, they talk about it more.

By unlimited, I mean the United States was self sufficient. She supplied her own oil for the most part and war goods. As far as the Axis were concerned it was unlimited compared to what they had. Not to mention the American factories were not being blown up from the air. They could just produce and produce and produce to their hearts content. I mean for gods shake the United States economy was like 1/3 the world economy at the time.


Go to about the 43 minute mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-5-NZy7MzU

 

Though I have to say two of these routes were already secured by UK Commonwealth campaigns with cooperation of Russia. Iran Basra Caspian route was captured by British Russian operation in August 1941 before US involved. Royal Navy Home Fleet in Scapa Flow and Iceland also provided most of Arctic Convoy route assets and escorts.

In that sense US was also very lucky to be allied with Britain which had a very complex and extensive logistical base infrastructure around the globe. UK itself was an unsinkable aircraft carrier providing necessary platform to wage Strategic Bomber Offensive then opening Second Front. Best logistical base invasion platform imagined. UK also secured Gibraltar , Suez , Italian East Africa and Middle East so Red Sea , Mediterranean route was clear for Allied transportation. Its bases in Canada , New Foundland , Iceland , West Africa , Caribbean and South Africa provided additional naval supply posts and longer but more secure shipping routes and good readiness areas for additional amphibious operation to keep Axis busy. Not to mention India (which was the main supply link base for air bridge across Himalayas to China where Nationalist Chinese were keeping more than half of Japanese Imperial Army busy. Without that airbridge which originated from India , Nationalist China would be out of war and Japanese would have a whole lot more troops to fight with ) , infrastructure of Australia and its hold on South West Pacific which provided an excellent base structure for MacArthur's South West Pacific Campaign.

USA entered war in 1941 and it overtook all ready transport and supply logistical bases of its primary ally UK , THAT factor also is one of the deciding factors why war was cut so short and won by Allies

 

Indeed British LL reached the Soviets well before any US LL did from what I recall reading.

 

No : the OP was saying : let's assume that Germany was supplied by the US and got unlimited ammo and fuel :this means that the US had unlimited ammo and fuel :unlimited does not exist .Compared to the needs of the SU,US LL was marginal,one of the reasons being transport problems : the US produced a lot of fuel,but,the fuel that was going to the SU was less than marginal compared to the fuel produced by the SU and the US .

Even if the US had produced 10 X more fuel,ammunition,etc,the LL to the SU would not be bigger than it was in the OTL.

 

In a realistic sense the US could produce all the ammo and fuel Gemany needed or wanted (thus unlimited).

LL was not marginal compared to the needs of the USSR in WWII. In some areas there may have been little contribution but it was critical in other areas and allowed the Soviets to specialize in some fields. Thus locomtive production during the war being essentially nil. As for fuel overall perhaps but look at say high octane Avgas and you get a different answer.

As for US producing more vs increase LL to the Soviets perhaps and perhaps not but irrelevant in any case.

 

Because,I know what he is alluding on : the story of the LL Spam,that,following the post war myths,was feeding the Red Army :even if the Spam was sufficient to feed the Red Army in 1943(which is more than questionable),this statement is meaningless,because,as far as I know,the SU was capable to feed the Red Army by its own means .

Besides :the Spam was only a small,very small part of the food that the US were sending :the spam was sufficient to feed 10 million men,while,in 1943,140 million people,living in the non occupied parts of the SU,had to be fed .

And,what did these 140 million people receive from LL ? An average of 1.217.597 ton food a year,which sounds big,but which is only : 8 kilos for everyone .It is obvious that this was totally insufficient .


How did the Soviet population survive WWII ? Not by LL,not by the Soviet centralised planning system,but by their own initiative.

From the introduction of "the bread of affliction" (P 3) :the only serious source that is partial available on the net :

While Soviet power was used to feed the armed forces,the solution to feed the civilian population,was not to use the strength of the centralised Soviet planning system but to force the population to find the capacity to feed itself ."

In simple words : on 22 june :,the Soviet government said implicitly : we are not/no more able to feed you,do it yourself:take initiative .

 

I did not say that the US economic aid was meaningless:I am saying that your comment about the Spam that could feed the Red Army is meaningless .

 

The food was just one part of the larger aid program (as Im sure you know). I was merely using that as one example of the many.

 

Saying how much the US was sending to the SU,but not mentioning how much the SU was producing is meaningless.

Exemple : LL food deliveries: 4.468 million ton (of which 901.220 ton of wheat,flour and other grains and cereals); on the other side : Soviet grain production in 1944: 46 million ton

 

Here are the numbers that win or lose the war:

Total German Army losses at the Eastern front:2,124,352
Total German Army losses during WW2: 3,268,877

That is: 65% of the total losses were at the Eastern front.

 

Till the end,there was no shortage of food in Germany,and,till 1943(when the dies were already cast),Germany had no fuel problems :even with more fuel,food and ammo,Germany would lose. Gloriously .

In 1941,the Germans failed in the East,not because a shortage of ammo or fuel,but because the SU was to strong .
The Germans failed in the Battle of the Atlantic,not because a shortage of anything,but because the Allies were stronger and "better".

Curiously,since a lot of time,there is some PC masochism dominating the historiography of WWII,which is refusing to give the Allies the credit for victory,and attributing the German defeat to Adolf,the weather,shortages of oil,etc,etc .

It is not so that the Germans lost,but the truth is that the Allies won .

 

First off Im going to get this out of the way. I am in no way trying to take credit of victory away from the allies.
But fuel shortage was a huge problem for Germany. I'm not going to get into throwing numbers around but I have read specific instances where the high commands stated that if they did not get the fuel to the East they might as well end the war. On top of that they had their synthetic oil factories destroyed as well. Lack of materials and fuel was a huge problem for Germany and Japan both, I can't stress that enough.