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Use of bazookas

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by LRusso216, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    Let me preface this post by saying that I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about history, mostly in the political, economic and social realms. I can tell you what happened, when it happened, and speculate about why it happened. I am less informed about military history. I know little about strategy and tactics. Sadly, my knowledge of military hardware is almost nil. In some recent reading, I came across a reference to the use of bazookas in North Africa. It got me to thinking, and I figured someone out there could fill me in.

    1. Were bazookas an effective weapon? I assume they were primarily used in anti-tank warfare.
    2. Was the US the first to employ this weapon? If not, who was?
    3. Did other nations use a similar weapon during the war?
    4. Were their teams attached to other units, or were they independent?

    Thanks in advance for any help, and excuse the ignorance. If you have answers to questions I haven't thought of, feel free to weigh in. :confused:
     
  2. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    Here you go everything you wanted to know about the Bazooka; but, were afraid to ask:

    Bazooka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Depending on the type of formation Bazooka teams were either organic to the unit or an attachment.
     
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  3. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member

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    Thanks for the crash course.
     
  4. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    I believe the final naval battle of the war involved a bazooka.
     
  5. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    Not a problem...........it seemed to be more comprehensive than anything I had floating around in my head.


    You can not just throw a jem like that out there and not cite a source or provide further information...lol

    Brad
     
  6. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    21 August, Tue. --
    Pacific
    Two Chinese junks (Lieutenant Livingston Swentzel Jr., USNR) manned by 7 Americans and 20 Chinese guerrillas are attacked by Japanese junk (with a crew of 83 men) while enroute from Haimen to Shanghai, China. In a 45-minute action, the Chinese craft, directed by Lieutenant Swentzel, engage the enemy with bazookas, machine guns, and grenades. Upon boarding the Japanese craft, the Allied force finds 45 dead and 35 wounded; the victory has been achieved at the cost of four Chinese killed, and one American and five Chinese wounded. For his heroism above and beyond the call of duty, Lieutenant Swentzel is awarded the Navy Cross in what probably proves to be the last surface action of World War II.
    Japanese escort vessel Miyake is damaged by mine near Moji, Japan, 33°58'N, 131°00'E. .

    The Official Chronology of the U.S. Navy in World War II--1945
     
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  7. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    Further reading:
    Hicks, Norman W. and Truman R. Strobridge. “Battle of the Junks.” World War II, Vol. 20, No. 5, Sep. 2005, pp 50-56.
    I believe another article came out around the same time on the same subject, but I can't find it. I first read of the incident in Morison.
     
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  8. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    to answer your # 3 and # 4

    yes the Panzerfaust 100, 150 more poserful than the bazooka as well as the Panzerschreck 54 and 54/1 both long barrel and short barrel for house to house fighting, both in 8.8cm. could destroy any Allied armored vehicle at ranges of US 100 yds. the panzerfaust was cheap and really a bedside weapon to the Landser in late 44-45. the Panzerschrek when first created was introduced into the Panzer AT Abteilungs then into Infantrie regiments at Kompanie strength, then flowing down to what we would consdier squad strength; it then became almost a standard AT personal weapon with the Infantrie unit alongside the Panzerfaust 100 on the Ost front in 1945.
     
  9. razin

    razin Member

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    The Bazooka was also used as a support weapon in Normandy Each Assault boat team had 2 Bazookas with 20 rounds each, the primary purpose was the attack on pillboxes which was extensively practiced in England.

    Bazooka type weapons developed by other countries.

    The Panzerfaust was similar in that it was a recoiless weapon but fired a warhead that was a modified rifle grenade as opposed to a rocket. This went into service in December 1942 and had nothing to do with captured M1 bazookers. It was the ideal one man A/T weapon of WW2, all combatents were happy to use any they found, to the extent that the Soviets introduced their own version of it

    The 88mm RP 43 and 54 Panzershreck were scaled up copies of the M1. But they were too expensive, inflexible and uncontrolable compared to the Panzerfaust or the M1.

    The Swedish M42 Carl Gustav, which was a standard 20mm shot or shell fired from a recoiless rifle, as it lacked the hollow charge warhead it did not compare to the M1 or the German weapons in destructive effect.

    Germany had Recoiless rifles which unlike Bazookers were small air portable artilery pieces using the recoiless principle, but like the M42 CG and the Panzerfaust they relied on combustion of the propelant in the weapon rather than in a rocket(as in the M1). The 7.5cm Leichtgeschutz 40 was the first recoiless weapon to be used in WW2 being used by German paratroopers in Crete in 1941. They were support weapons firing a shell derived from the 7.5cm Field Kanone 16 na, no hollow charge shell was developed for it as Anit-tank capability was not a requirement.

    The Russians had a recoiless fixed instalation weapon of 76.2mm calibre capable of firing a 4.7kg shell at 360m/s to 7000m range.
     
  10. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    the Panzerschreck was not a copy of the bazooka nor was it expensive to produce, it was a heavy bitch that is a fact at over 26 pounds and thus a two man effort......it literally had to be placed as an ambush weapon certainly not as easily used in a forward advancing stage but purely as a defnsive weapon though in Ost Preussia it was used to clean out houses with dealy efficintcy
     
  11. razin

    razin Member

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    Ok justify these statments, I want people to post original research, debunking anything that is inaccurate or plain wrong.
     
  12. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    you came on with claims but no references why should I except to say first hand accounts and owning one personally. if you saw one first hand you'd know what I say, it is rolled and stamped metal with a simple wooden/metal cocking arm with electrical conduit. what you term as expensive in comparison to what the US bazook cost possibly so but it was worth every penny distributed amongst the Landser both Heer and W-SS. the bazook copy forwarded the Panzerfaust principle as a cheap toy throw away in which 3 different other variations were produced. it is all buried and written down by my waffenmeister friend who serviced, operated personally and distributed the weapons casche withing his regt. 43 in the 1st Infantrie Division on the Ost front
     
  13. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    guys a little something with a pic taken too many years ago, I need to update with close-ups sometime. been studying this thing, personell and useage within the AT formations and regular duties of the front line German soldier since I first picked it up back in 1965
     

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  14. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    At the risk of regurgitating, paraphrasing or plagerisng I will offer this, in lieu of going to the library and is a very condensed version of the cited references:

    The US developed the "Bazooka Concept" at the end of WW1 to be used as a "Bunker buster".

    The Germans developed the Faustpatrone in 1941 when they saw how effective their 8.8cm rounds were against the Russian T-34s and quickly developed an infantry level delivery system for that round by converting a PzB 39 anti Tank grenade launcher. This lead to improvements and the development of the Panzerfaust, both were disposable and very efective.

    While the Panzerfaust and the Faustpatrone were effective against allied armor, they lacked versatility. The Germans captured several of the US "Bazookas" in North Africa and Lend Lease Bazookas from the Eastern Front. From these captured weapons they developed an Improved "bazooka" in the Panzerschreck.

    All of the weapons utilized the HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) round wich utilized a "shaped charge". It is appearent that all the weapons (while similar in design, function and application) differ greatly in their delivery mechanism which in turn contributes to their overall success on the battlefield.

    Bazooka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Panzerschreck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    High explosive anti-tank warhead - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust
    Faustpatrone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIAT
    RPG-43 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    RPG-40 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Brad
     
  15. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    I'd think it was reasonable to say the Panzerschreck was 'modelled' on the Bazooka, despite the differences in ignition systems, weight, calibre etc. the RPzB did appear as a relatively simple man-portable tube (rather than the previous perhaps over-complex approach to to a similar concept by the Germans with the Rwerfer 43 or Puppchen) very shortly after they got their hands on early M1 examples in Tunisia. Maybe not a direct copy, but surely they fell from the same development tree and one nudged along the other's creation quite substantially? The Germans already had the rocket, but the bazooka confirmed the simpler reloadable delivery of it? (Interesting that the Bazooka eventually turned to magneto ignition as well, like the German design).
    I suppose it depends somewhat on which model you look at too, the earliest and rather plain schreck 43 model having more in common with the M1 than the later 54 & 54/1 with the shield etc.

    One Bazooka query - I have a nice little book by Terry Gander in which he says: "for some unfathomable reason early German reports on the Bazooka referred to it as the 'Stanley Anti-Tank rifle". Anyone able to shed any more light on why they might have used that designation?

    And another thing if handheld rockets are the theme; I'd still like to learn more on the 9X20MM 'Luft/Fliegerfaust' project. I've got sketchy reference and rough stats but have never seen much more on how far it really got down the development path:
    [​IMG]

    Anyway, I reckon the Bazooka's a most pleasing item, kind of iconic in pictures of US squaddies, if you look hard enough at any WW2 group of 'em you'll likely see at least one tube sticking out somewhere.

    Mind you, it suits Winston too ;) :
    [​IMG]
    Imperial War Museum Collections Online Database

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  16. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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  17. Skinny87

    Skinny87 Member

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    Oh god, no! Don't trust anything in that article! It's awful, cited mostly to dodgy websites and a flaming tv documentary. I've been meaning to rewrite it, but I don't have the sources yet.
     
  18. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    maybe these can point you in the right direction:

    M1 Bazooka - Rocket Launcher - History, Specifications and Pictures - Infantry Weapons
    The Bazooka in Marine Corps service
    NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Bazooka
    NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Panzerschreck
    NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Panzerfaust
     
  19. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Personally I prefer the panzerfaust because with the schreck and bazooka somebody has to get his head up to load the damn thing.Being able to just switch between weapons without getting your head up might just be the difference to survive the sniper or mortar fire.
     
  20. razin

    razin Member

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    Fjh why are you replying to my post #11? If you read my first post #9 on this subject you will see their is nothing I have said that is at variance to what you subsequently posted!
     

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