Veterans

Letting the flag touch the ground is the equivelent to surrendering. Also shows disrespect.

You are not expected to sing the national anthem but are encouraged to do so. You are expected to stand, remove your hat if a man, place right hand over heart and look towards the flag or music. I think this could be where the saying "face the music" comes from.

The flag is to be folded into a three corner shape when not in use, only the blue and stars will be showing if done correctly. If on a staff, it's to be rolled on the staff.

When displayed, it is to be on the right side of two flags and in the center of three or more flags. If flying, the national flag always flies at the top.

 

All right, now I can understand that some people feel strongly for their country and wish others would too. I can understand that some people put immense value in national symbols and cannot stand to see these symbols ignored or discredited by others. But this is just ridiculous.

If you don't love your country so much that you are willing to respect a piece of cloth representing it as an abstract symbol, then you should leave your country? Whatever is the reasoning behind that? Why would love for a country be the condition on which someone is allowed to stay there? It is immensely selfish to believe that people should leave their country if they don't love it; after all, would they love another country? That doesn't matter as long as they leave yours, isn't it? In the end, then, what you guys are saying is "love my country or get out".

Apart from the idea that love for a country is required among its population, why would this love have to manifest itself in a sort of devoted ritual centered around the national flag? It is a symbol like any other. Similarly, would you demand of all inhabitants of a country to respect the national currency as a holy thing? The head of state? The language? Anything else that defines a nation? Of course not.

The only reason why anyone could demand of others to show so much respect for the national flag would be that it is seen as an embodiment of the nation as a whole. If you're proud of your country then you can feel such projected respect is logical. However, the consequence of that is that everything that represents the nation as a symbol must be seen as holy and untouchable, and must be respected, because so is the flag. And that is something you cannot demand of a people without either oppressing them or indoctrinating them with an extremist form of nationalism which famously led to two World Wars and a stunning 70,000,000 deaths. Makes a fellow proud of his country, doesn't it.

I have a great deal of respect for the veterans of WW2, but frankly I don't give a damn what flag they were planting on Iwo Jima as long as it wasn't the Imperial Japanese, Italian or Third Reich flag. For all I care they were planting a flag with a signal on it to the navy that they had taken Mount Suribachi. It doesn't matter; what matters is the victorious pose, the knowledge that the good guys are one step closer to victory. An Allied victory.

The words you quoted do not so much show the power of national symbols as of military rallying points; these also define a group (and an objective), but they are not comparable to flags that are supposed to represent a nation. They serve as signals, not as symbols; if the flag falls, that means the general is dead or captured.

 

Im sorry if you feel that way but there is more to my identity then a bit of cloth. Things like personallity or your achevments are much more important then the fact your british,american,russian or a resident of tin buck two (what are they called?).

 

I am a native of my country purely because of an accident of birth (and my parents' etc). It's just something that happened. And as a citizen of my country I see a great number of its faults (in fact as time goes on I have less respect for my country - but that could be cycnicsm and curmudgeonly old age :lol: ).
In the event of a war I would have (if I'd have been the right age) joined up, in fact at my interview for the mob* the CO of recruitment asked "why do you want to kill people" -and the answer was part of the interview process. My reply was that I believed that my country would not be an agressor and therefore I would be prepared to kill people as a form of national self-defence, but I have never taken the view "my country right or wrong" and cannot understand it.
If I'd been born German, American or Timbuktu-ian I hope I'd feel the same way, nationality is something you have no choice in, so why should it be so important?
*the mob = the RAF, presumably called the mob because you were later "demobbed" from it. Yes I know you were demobbed from all the forces, but only the RAF thinks like that - lack of oxygen at altitude affects the brain.

 

Personally, I am proud to be British.

(Despite the fact that over her history Britain has probably screwed over more countries than anybody else. )

However, I see this as no reason to be blind to my country's failings, nor to be contemptuous of any other country for no good reason.

One can be proud of something without having that be their identity.

 

Well, it is only young...

 

I always thought, that the flag combines all the good things your nation stands for. It´s not such a worthless n´unnecessary piece of cloth, it´s the symbol for your nation´s values.

 

Not in the UK, our current government have managed to turn into a "trendy logo" and seriously degraded it in IMHO.
Or how about it being a symbol of my nation's values when worn by football thugs going to match abroad and showing the rest of the world what (some) Brits are like?
I think the Union flag has lost a lot of validity.

 

That's how I feel.

 

...and cos you see it 24 hours a day, you can not ignore (as citizen of the United States of America) the importance of your flag.
















It´s everywhere !

Regards,
Che.

 

And because it is everywhere, it is bound to get watered-out a little.

 

The Dutch flag, for example, is absolutely nowhere to be found. Except in Luxembourg, which uses the same colours (but a slightly more faded red).

 

I´ve always thought that the United States were/are a nation in which real patriotism is a essential part of the society, thats one of the reasons why I admire the USA and wanna live there, if possible.


@Roel

loool

 

Che, I wish you could hurry on over here. We need patriots.

I think the flag of the USA is treated so special because that is our national identity. We don't have royalty, symbols, many centuries of history, etc. It also has meaning; the stars represent each state (50 stars for 50 states), the stripes represent the 13 original Colonies, and the colors (red, white and blue) are derived from the Union Jack (even though the USA is not a member of the Commonwealth of Nations).

 

I´m gonna get there asap, however I´ve to finish school at first ( I got 12 of 13 years of school)

I, Che, pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all.



Regards,
Che.

 

Ironically the real Che Guevara would never have said anything of the sort...

JCalhoun: I understand that the American flag is a more important national symbol in a nation without other such symbols like a royal family or legendary heritage. However, even so, it is being blown up to unbelievable proportions in America. Forcing children to pledge their allegiance to the flag in school every morning, for example, is something that would be unthinkable here in the Netherlands.

 

Children are not forced to do the pledge. I guess it must be a cultural thing that is hard to understand without being part of it.

Then again, I guess it's just the American way. We are passionant in most things we do. Like cars, sports and so on.

 

That's what I mean, it is a cultural aspect, not a necessity for the health of a nation.

By the way, Europeans are quite passionate about sports and such, too - I haven't heard of American football hooligans yet and that's something for Yanks to be proud of.

 

Not so much hooligans but we do have some roudy fans. The old Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia had a jail in the basement. Then there are the fans of rival teams. That can usually turn violent.