Von Stauffenburg, traitor or hero?

A very significant portion of the Soviet. otherwise not particularly significant, economy was destroyed. L&L helped very much, thank you (as a 3. generation bolshevik). But L&L, if you followed my line of reasoning (you know, the conspiratory one), it helped build a decent enemy and helped an awful lot producers in USA, who got payed by the US taxpayer in the first place.

Germans did have supply problems, not least because they weren´t nice to the populations they occupied (ca. 600 000 German soldiers and administrators killed by partisans, as far as I remember) only East. Besides, they were not prepared to wage that kind of war. Hitler was a lunatic. Stalin´s intelligence regularly checked the kinds of lubricants Wehrmacht used and the prices of sheep skins in Europe (both indicated no preparation for war in Russian winter). Stalin overestimated Hitler – he was probably unable to understand a hot fanatic, himself being a cold fanatic, i.e. – a patient one.

 

I think if it would of worked count Von Stauffenburg would of settled for complete surrender but after the war some crazy man would kill him just like a rerun of ww1

 

Stauffenberg wasn't doing it for a power grab , he was doing it for germany , it's army and it's people , because he knew Hitler was ruining it all.

 

Would have still been a likely target. Even if degraded to private of Bundeswehr. TD misses rather seldom a point, if you do the necessary effort to get the message out of its "package".

 

anyone who tried to kill hitler is a hero.

 

Do you consider Hitler a hero then? Afterall he was the only one who actually succeeded...! :-? :lol:

 

too late: doesn´t count.

 

anyone who killed hitler but himself , that's what i meant ,

 

for me staufenberg and his posse are PO MO FOs they didnt try to kill hitler because of the regime or the war crimes only because they were realising that this war is basicly lost so they just tried to save their fake ases otherwise they should blew up hitler 1939 when he started this shit or better in 1933 but fact is while hilter was winnig he was ok for them but not when the game is getting lost
They also give a shit about jews or russian pow while they were wining :bang:

 

Officers of the Wehrmacht tried since 1939 to kill Hitler, not just in 1944.

 

I know about the german millitary resitance but this thread is about stauffenbergs 1944 coup

 

He sweard Hitler his loyalty as he joind the Wehrmacht. It´s not particualar easy for an german officer to broke up with that. Stauffenberg was a member of the "Kreisauer Kreis", they planed to kill Hitler in early 1943, however it takes time reorganise a state (Operation "Walküre"). How should Stauffenberg kill Hitler earlier, when he was in Poland, France, Russia and Africa?

 

when i recive the order to engage another country wich did nothing i would tell him to go here and fight by himself i would give a shit about these orders

 

Pfff, you don´t know the situation in germany before and during the war. All (cinema, radio, newspaper, everythin) was controlled by the nazis. If you always hear that russia will attack you, you would believe it, why? Because you have no other information(sources). They wanted to do their job and thats it.

 

i guess you are right che but for me it is still hard to accept that stauffenberg was a hero
because there were already assasination trials befor and at ´the begining of the war so how could all the other found out that hitler was a po mo fo and staufi just when the allies landed in france the german skies were blackend by allied bombers and the collaps of the heersgruppe mitte in the east to me thats sounds just after a millitary coup to replace a man who dident forfill a victory if germany stands behind the ural and the allied landing were crushed all these suckers would do nothing
only the guys are heros to me who fought againt hitler when everything went good

 

That is called insubordination. I do believe generals were shot for that offence in most armies of the day.

When you join the chain of command in an army you follow the orders of those above you and those beneath you follow yours. This is a principle of warfare and if it is not held onto the army in question will become useless, because no one with a broader view will have control over those who lack it. The inherent evil of this system is that if the upper links of the chain are retards (such as in the German army after 1942) the outcome of obedience is as disastruous as disobedience if the supreme command is competent.

 

It is an interesting point though - did Staffenburg only begin to plot against Hitler after the war started going badly?

 

OH FOR SURE
as long as hitler was succsesfull they had no problem with him
because in the time befor 1944 there were also concentration camps mass executions no press freedom or poastal secret and there were people who saw that and act up against it
but the german millitary resitance goes along with the luck of war

 

You´ve written before

??

There were many resistance against Hitler, how should a german soldier/officer do sthin´, if he is thousends miles away in russia? I guess they had other problems(survival, afraid of their families etc) then killing Hitler.

 

i am not talking about some frontline privates who were chilling in russia
i am talking about the generals and colonels who spend hours and days with hitler in his closest circle to plan his criminal crusades insted of taking him out and prevent him to send the troops to conquer europe
but as i said they tought they could win and so they helped the devil but when the devil begins to fall they tried to get rid of him
not that they are just criminals and po mo fos they are even inloyal criminal po mo fos
there is no doubt the german general staff was exellent and skilled but lacks in their understanding of what is right or wrong or may be they knew and dont care wich is evev worser