Was Hitler right to attack the USSR in 1941?

I think Hitler made a grave mistake by attacking the Red Army.

I think he gravely under estimated the power of Russia's army and civilians. Not only did the attack weaking Hitler's army but the attack on what was supposed to be his ally helped move public opinion in The USA to help bring Hitler down. Although, if Hitler had succeeded in Russia maybe we could have avoided the Cold War and thwarted the spread of communism. Great question.

 

well said lou.

Suzie

 

Who would need a cold war when no Russia, and then no Britain who would surely have had to seek a seperate peace.....Iron curtain would subside and make way for a metal fist and probably me amongst others here would never have been born. Great.........Better dead than red eh...? Give me strengh.

 

Hmm, great comment. So that basically means creation of extermination camps (GULAGs weren't intended as death camps, so don't mention that) and the burning of people in stoves. Really? I mean, there were countless Jews in the commanding staff and officers, the Communist Party was filled with Jews (pardon me for the expression). Please comment on the stuff you can actually back up with facts.

And Stalin killed more of his own? Riiight. I mean , just look at Sloniksp's Hitler quote. People didn't consider Stalin 'evil' back then, and purely on a statistical basis that's impossible.

The bottom line is, Hitler shouldn't have attacked at all. Period. The moment German boots crossed the Soviet border, they began their demise, their long and bloody haul back to Berlin.

 

I don´t know if it´s interesting reading as killing seldom is but anyway, here it is:

Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Almost forgot this one, post-war by Stalin

http://www.ww2f.com/free-fire-zone/16987-stalin-1953-doctor-s-plot.html

 

While I voted "yes", I did so because this would be the only time-period in which he had the opportunity to actually succeed. If he had gone at them earlier, he would have been in more trouble. If he waited until '42 his nation's inability to contiue to pay for the goods they were importing from the Soviets would have become an untenable situation for him.

It was a major blunder to attack them at all, but that was his best chance. Even though it was no chance at all, he was so sure that the Communists were weak (the Finns had handled them quite well); Hitler, in his infinite wisdom and the firm belief that the Operation Barbarossa was going to be concluded in his favor very soon, he ordered the Nazi war industry to shift production away from artillery and tanks and to now concentrate on U-boat and aircraft production on July 14th 1941.

Remember his famous line (paraphrasing); "kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will collapse!" He hadn't yet run into the T-34s. Hitler had to "measure" his use of the raw materials he had in stock to such a degree he couldn't build both sea and land/air weapons at the same time. And with the loss of Soviet chromite, other rare earth alloys, and POL he really had to take the gamble when he did. He couldn't do it earlier, or later. 1941 was his best shot, poor as it was.

 

I never said that the Russians created extermination camps solely to exterminate Jews. Where you pulled that out......who knows. Antisemitism has a long history not just in Russia but in Europe. Stalin did publicly announce that he was against racial discrimination of any kind....this did not mean that antisemitism did not exist. There was a reason as to why Jews joined the party but I would like to see the actual amount of what you state as being 'filled with Jews'.

"Antisemitism was commonly used as an instrument for personal conflicts in Soviet Russia, starting from conflict between Stalin and Trotsky and continuing through numerous conspiracy theories spread by official propaganda. Antisemitism in the USSR reached new heights after 1948 during the campaign against the "rootless cosmopolitan" (euphemism for "Jew") in which numerous Yiddish-writing poets, writers, painters and sculptors were killed or arrested. This culminated in the so-called Doctors' Plot. Similar anti-Jewish propaganda in Poland resulted in the flight of the Polish Jewish survivors out of the country.
After the war, the Kielce pogrom and "March 1968 events" in communist Poland represented further incidents of antisemitism in Europe. The common theme behind the anti-Jewish violence in postwar Poland were blood libel rumours."

Antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stalin's antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
History of the Jews in Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Antisemitism in Russia today:
http://www.adl.org/russia/russian_political_antisemitism_3.asp
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/158.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Human_Rights/98sens.html
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1079002.html

Might I add, You should follow your own advice and provide your own facts when posting in such an uncouth manner.

 

Unfortunately, the Jewish people have always been persecuted in Europe for hundreds of years. In some countries much worse than in others but no European country is with out guilt. No country treated the Jewish people worse than Nazi Germany and to make such a comparison of any country is not only insulting but is also a sign of ignorance (not intended at you Kai).

 

You edited out the word favored while I was putting a reply together, but I think favored would have been the wrong word here; perhaps not specifically discriminated against and allowed to participate in the nation’s running and functioning is probably the better concept.

In that case I would put forward Great Britain after the 18th Century as the probable leader.

For a list see:

List of British Jewish politicians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With America coming in maybe second in the western democracies:

List of Jewish American politicians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Wiki", I know but true none the less. The anti-Semitism of America was only included into the ranks of the KKK after the Mary Phagan (sp?) trial in the early 20th Century. A Jew from the North was convicted (wrongly) of raping and killing a young white woman in the factory he ran. He was sentenced to death, but the sentence was commuted by the Governor of the state because he could see it was a wrongful conviction. He couldn't release the man, but he stopped the execution.

Before he could do more, the man was dragged out of the prison and lynched by a mob. No-one was ever arrested or anything for that crime, and after that moment the KKK extended its hate to both Catholics and Jews as well as African-Americans. The Jews were excluded from a great many of America's "clubs/hotels" and such, but so were some Catholics, most Hispanics, all most all Native Americans, and Afro-Americans. Jews weren't even special in that.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head here PzJgr. There is a great depiction of just that in "Defiance" where a Red Army Partisan insults a Jew and then is forced to apologize because "on paper" there is no racial policy. I think everyone here can agree that whats "on paper" and whats in someone's heart or head are two different things...

I must say though that certain countries in the east such as Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Belarus and parts of Ukraine were especially cruel.

 

Yes I realized that and tried to remove it quickly.

Agree 100% brndirt1. I too would consider GB as being the front runner in Europe.

I did not include the United States simply because I was speaking of Europe only. However, outside of Israel, I can not name any other country which is and has been more friendly to the Jewish people than the United States. For this reason alone many Jews from the East (my father included) fled to America. While being Russian orthodox myself, I can proudly express my gratitude (on behalf of my family) for the invitation and the hospitality which followed.

 

NEEDERTHLANDS?

List of Dutch Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Wow... looks like I was misunderstood. I don't think that the russian victory was a major turning point in the war. I am sure that it could have been start of the decline for Germany. Obviously Germany committed unspeakable crimes during the war and that would be no substitute for the oppressive goverment that Russia had at the time. I think some are assuming that a German victory in Russia would have been a victory for the war and I don't think that would have been the case. I think the German army would have still gotten overstreched and even more arrogant, which would have still (I feel) ensured an Ally victory. But thankfully with American and British and every other allied country aiding the Russian Army with the resources the needed they were able to push back the Germans and defeat them in Russia.

 

Im not sure I understand this statement, please elaborate.

 

I ment to say some could say that it was the start of the decline for the German Army

 

What was the start of the decline for the German Army? Are you referring to the Easter Front in General or a specific battle?

 

The eastern front

 

In that case grunge615 you would really need to elaborate.


Some might consider the infliction of 80% of total German casualties in the war a little more than a "decline".