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We need an intelligence sub-forum

Discussion in 'Counter-Battery Fire' started by CPL Punishment, Jun 5, 2011.

  1. CPL Punishment

    CPL Punishment Member

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    As important as intelligence, cryptology, and special operations were to the course of the Second World War it is surprising to find that no forum for discussion of matters pertaining to same does not exist. I hereby move that a sub-forum titled Intelligence, Crypology, and Special Operations be created.

    If a suitable location already exists which I have overlooked would a kind someone please publish a link?
     
    Biak likes this.
  2. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Sounds like a good idea to me. (Does that mean you have to kill me now?)
     
  3. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    I like where you're going with the idea except for the term "Special Operations". A better title might be : "Intelligence, Cryptology, Espionage and Deception". Including "Special Operations" in the title of anything will attract silenced weapon weilding, parachute arriving, ninja frogmen proponents that has no base in reality.

    I think the "Special Operations" moniker might be too broad reaching.
     
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  4. CPL Punishment

    CPL Punishment Member

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    Good points all. Yes, I agree, formerjughead, your title and discussion parameters are better than mine. Your point about "special operations" being to broad is well taken. Heh, Teenage Mutant Ninja Frogmen...

    It's hard enough to keep the discussion within the bounds of history.
     
  5. CPL Punishment

    CPL Punishment Member

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    I must wait until the ink of your signature to the Official Secrets Act is dry.
     
  6. theblackalchemist

    theblackalchemist Member

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    perhaps rack up a sizeable amount of posts in the ww2 general forum first, and then after seeing how it goes request for a new forum?

    just my 2c..
    Regards,
    TBA
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Ditto formerjughead, no "field ops" in Intell. Wild Bill Donovan would approve of the separation, I think. SOE? I don't know.
     
  8. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Start with a "Myths of Intell" thread?
     
  9. theblackalchemist

    theblackalchemist Member

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    by myths you do mean unforgiveable f**k up's ? then yes, i'd take part in promoting irony :)

    Regards,
    TBA
     
  10. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Mistakes in one thread (The Wehrmacht's evaluations of FUSAG, for example.) and myths in another.
     
  11. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Patron  

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    Additions like this one and the suggested one on Ships are something that Otto has to take care of. I think until he is sure that the new platform is stable, this is kind of on the back burner. However, it wouldn't hurt to send him a PM in case he doesn't see this thread.

    I agree that the idea has merit.
     
  12. ULITHI

    ULITHI Ace

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    Great idea! How would it be divied up? OSS, NKVD, SD, And so forth?

    Also, if anyone has any info on dead drops, and James Bond-style secret gadgets they might have had back then, make a thread for that!
     
  13. Otto

    Otto No More Half Measures Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    It certainly does. I'll set this up as soon as I get home this evening. Any new threads will be moved into the section, but also feel free to identify any existing intelligence/espionage and post link in this thread. I'll push them into the new section so our new forum isn't empty.
     
  14. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    I think if we look at the way the SOE developed during the war from an all encompassing autonomous intelligence gathering unit capable of direct / indirect/ insurgent/ resistance and 5th column actions actions to a streamlined compartmentalised organisation that was integrated among several branches, and we keep this in mind, it could be an enjoyable forum indeed.

    You can almost compare the progression of the SOE during the War Years to the development of the US Special Forces in the '60's through the '90's ending with the establishment of the Special Operations Command. It took the US 40 years to realise what it took the Brits 5.

    Special Operations Executive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    I suggest starting threads with the Agency name to begin with, "OSS: Wild Bill and FDR", "Mixed: OSS and GPU co-operation?", and so on. Then after a while we'll get a feel for subforums.
     
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  16. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    I would like this. My angle:

    Family friends tried to get some information on an Uncle about what he did in the war for the RAF. His record says when he enrolled and then the rest is blank with a stamp that says "Official Secrets Act" on it. The RCAF tried to get more information but were not allowed to. Their reply said that some documents were sealed for 100 years, some will not be released for more than 100 years and some will or may never be released at all (and that this can always be extended.)

    Example: Under the Official Secrets Act, the report on the Lancastria, sunk by Luftwaffe bombers (June 17, 1940) while evacuating troops from France can not be published until 2040.

    In my dad's copy of Peden's "A Thousand Shall Fall" there are a few check marks in the Special Ops chapter besides names of people he knew, which always made us wonder if that's how they came to be known.

    William Stephenson "Intrepid" http://www.trueintrepid.com/ is without question, Canada's most famous person of WW2. A big businessman and inventor (including "faxing" digital images which was an enormous asset leading up to and during the war) who sunk his entire and considerable fortune into the War effort's Special Ops, its training, not to mention espionage, including a personal escapade into Norway. Good tribute to him, see page 2 in particular at http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/03/o...tish-spy-known-as-intrepid-is-dead-at-93.html

    Yet even with successive Official Secrecy Act releases and the subsequent barrage of books published on him and by Special Ops agents, the information to date is light weight, glossed over. Tributes to the training and assistance of people, Ninja training experiences, glossed over operations. Very little of substance or depth.

    Therefore, for me, the most interesting and attractive section of this proposed forum, and the area that would keep drawing me back, would be Special Operations.
    So few survived the war, fewer still would be alive at this late date in time, and few of those would have related stories to their family and friends.
    Capturing those that we can, while we still can, would be a noble endeavor indeed. I very much hope this proposal is accepted.

    News:
    Bletchley Park unveils rebuilt Tunny codebreaker computer http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-05/27/tunny-rebuilt
     
  17. Otto

    Otto No More Half Measures Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    OK, I lied. I'm not going to set up the section just yet. The mods and I are goign to discuss the best way to create/mange the new area. This is going to happen soon, just not yet. :)
     
  18. theblackalchemist

    theblackalchemist Member

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    Perhaps an umbrella forum dealing with unconventional warfare might do the trick?
    Or perhaps by extension asymmetric warfare? Regards, TBA
     
  19. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    That gets us back into "special warfare", I think. It may be okay to have a broad spectrum forum while we see how it develops, however. "Wars can be won by great battles, or by one sneaky bastard with a knife."
     
  20. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    All is well and good as long as we all remember that there is a clear deliniation between "Direct Action" and "Indirect Action" just as there is a clear difference between Passive and Non Passive Inteligence gathering as well as a difference between bean counters and snake eaters.

    There are some very interesting stories in this realm and we should treat them, and eachother, when we discuss them with respect.
     

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