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What battle on the Western Front?

Discussion in 'World War 2' started by germanm36tunic, Jan 1, 2006.

  1. Ricky

    Ricky Active Member

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    That is a different point. :wink:
    I was simply pointing out that America was perfectly capable of winning control over at least the Western half of the Atlantic - more if she took over Iceland.
     
  2. Quillin

    Quillin New Member

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    that hurted the U-boats a lot. that kept the northwestern appraoches more safer.
    i agree when you say that america was more powerfuller then europe but a two front war would putted her economic capabilities to the test.
     
  3. misterkingtiger

    misterkingtiger New Member

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    Britain didn't have a lot of troops. The USA could've come up with the troops necessary by themselves.


    The Americans did take over Iceland. And it was fairly decisive in the war in the Atlantic: with bases in Britain, the US, Newfoundland and now Iceland, no German wolfpack could attack an Allied convoy without heavy losses.

    Good point. America's economic weight was just beginning to be felt during 1943, and by 1945, the economy had grown by leaps and bounds. Now, if it had been taking place on American soil, with industrial cities falling daily as in Germany during the latter stages of the European war, the American 'economic colossus' would have collapsed at the base.

    This is all assuming that the British surrendered. And, in the European theatre, the most important battle was D-Day.

    'Der Verlust der ersten Schlacht, auf den Stränden, bedeutet das Verlassen von Europa geöffnet zur Invasion.' Erwin Rommel, date unknown.

    Excuse my German.
     
  4. Ricky

    Ricky Active Member

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    No, the British did. If Britain had not done so, America would have had to choose whether or not to invade a neutral country - and by then, Germany might even have taken it over.

    The following is from http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/A1126496 - the BBC History Site.
    It is the best/most concise version of events I could find.


    Iceland had been a separate state under the Danish crown since 1918, but it declared temporary independence after Germany invaded Denmark in April 1940. It remained neutral and, fearful of invasion itself, initially rebuffed British offers of protection.

    However, Iceland's location gave it a critical strategic importance in the Battle of the Atlantic and, fearful of German invasion, Britain decided to establish a presence there.

    On 10 May, Force Sturges arrived in Reykjavik Bay. The troops quickly secured important locations and took local Germans into custody. Although Iceland issued a formal protest, the British occupation was tacitly accepted and islanders were asked to consider the soldiers as guests and show them all courtesies.

    Germany investigated launching its own invasion but rapidly dismissed the idea as impractical. However, the British did not know this and requested urgent reinforcements. These arrived over the course of the summer and included field artillery and anti-aircraft guns.

    Britain also asked Canada for reinforcements. On 16 June, Z Force arrived but their unwillingness to share command saw them replaced in October by the British 70th Brigade. Further reinforcements arrived in June 1941; by July, there were over 25,000 troops in Iceland. These included Navy and RAF personnel as facilities were expanded considerably and aircrew undertook patrol work, reconnaissance and anti-submarine duties.

    In late May 1941, the United States offered to assume responsibility for Iceland. Churchill accepted immediately and, on 7 July, the 1st Marine Brigade arrived. Britain's garrison on Iceland returned to the UK shortly afterwards.

    Throughout the war, British officers referred to the country as Iceland (C) on Churchill's orders - because someone had mistakenly sent a ship to Ireland instead of Iceland early in the war.
     
  5. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    For whom?

    I have previously argued on here that the very fact that the Allies went ahead with the invasion meant that the Germans had already been defeated elsewhere. This makes perfect sense if you consider that the Allies would not invade, as a rule, unless they controlled both the Atlantic and the European skies, and unless the landing of ground troops had at least a 90% chance of success.
     
  6. misterkingtiger

    misterkingtiger New Member

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    For the British and their morale, even though they did little.

    It would have taken the soviets at least another half year to defeat the nazis without the d-day landings, because Hitler would have had somewhere to escape whilst the Russian troops were converging on Berlin (Paris, St Nazaire Bordeaux, Vichy) without threat of being captured by the Allies. And knowning Hitler, if he saw a capitulation document for Germany, he'd burn it rather than sign it.

    Put it this way: Hitler lives, war continues.
     
  7. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Without German industry and the support of the German population I highly doubt the Germans would have been able to continue the war. Particularly from such a hostile place as France. I would rather assume that when the Russians had overrun all of Germany, full-scale revolt would break out against the German occupants in all countries they still held, both because the Germans had been nominally defeated and in order to avoid Russian occupation replacing the Germans.
     
  8. misterkingtiger

    misterkingtiger New Member

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    Roel, I was agreeing with the point you had made. The Allies knew full well that the Germans had been defeated at Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk and at El Alamein. Eisenhower, Patton and Monty were in touch with everything that went on. They had plans for situations where what they originally planned failed. Eisenhower even wrote a document that he would make public if D-Day failed assuming full responsibility for the failure of the operation.

    And as for the Russian front, the most important battle is a toss-up:

    Tactically: Moscow

    Morally: Stalingrad

    Militaristically (i think thats a word): Kursk
     
  9. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Patton didn't even command his own Army yet on D-Day. As far as I know he would have had no right to be "into things" at the level of Eisenhower and Montgomery.

    Besides, I do not think I really understand what point you're trying to make - D-Day might still fail, but especially Britain made it very clear that they would not go ahead with the operation unless victory was as likely as possible. They did not have the resources or manpower to have another go if the first try failed.
     
  10. misterkingtiger

    misterkingtiger New Member

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    You don't exactly have to be at the top of Army brass to own a radio and be caught up with the events. I'm pretty sure that American radio had daily updates whenever info became available. And major events like Stalingrad, Kursk, or El Alamein would be impossible to keep off the radio (propaganda, morale, etc.)

    Yes, Britain wanted to make sure it succeeded, that's why the Allies added the 'Ghost Army' heading towards Calais, which forced Hitler to divert massive forces AWAY from Normandy. I ain't trying to start anything here, because I know I'd lose. I agree with everything you said. Britain was at its limit at this time in the war. And, certainly, if the op failed and Gemany somehow (BIG SOMEHOW) invaded Britain, the only inlet for American troops would be the meat grinder Italy and southern France. Besides, the vast majority of the forces were American and Canadian, the British only had an army and a half in W. Europe at the time of the German surrender.
     
  11. Revere

    Revere New Member

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    Well I dont think we would've as you have seen we dont like going to war becouse our people arent very war and we need something big to get us all on the right side of thing,s just as if something would've happened if the North Vetinam would've attack us instead of us going in there for no reason.
     
  12. Revere

    Revere New Member

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    Yes and when he did command on he kicked the Germans ass :bang: :bang: :bang:
     
  13. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Of course everyone was aware of what was going on. I thought you meant to say that Ike, Patton and Monty all had a hand in the decisions that were being made and the backup plans that were drawn up; I protested because Patton wasn't involved at the level of Monty and Ike.

    Patton did a fair job commanding 3rd Army, but I wouldn't call him particularly more effective than Hodges or Simpson - he just happened to face an entirely different situation than they did most of the time.
     
  14. Mutant Poodle

    Mutant Poodle New Member

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    The RCN was huge and still growing, the British navy would have gone to Canada creating a navy to rival the USN, for about a year anyways. THe RCAF could have attacked any fleet approaching the east coast and not even have the USA blink.

    Got to go bye.
     

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