What do you consider "the beginning of the war?"

Considering this whole isolationism non-intervention thing, I have a question.

What would have happened if Japan had not attacked US forces/possessions in the Pacific, but rather declared war on Britain and the Dutch? With Vichy co-operation in Indo-China and the resources of Indonesia they would have gotten their required supplies. Would they have even needed Mayala? Maybe just go to war against the Dutch. 'Asia for the Asians', how would this have played in the US ? FDR was really looking more at Hitler, and there was still the America Firsters to deal with.

 

Those "spineless wimps in Europe" fought to the last man to keep Germany outside of their borders especially France. The problem with the French army was that it was ill-equipped and didn't have up to date technology like Britain and America which were at the time Britain was a world superpower and America was on the rise to becoming one. France had tons of men at their disposal. Surprisingly the French outnumbered the Germans in the beginning of the war. But Germany used wits instead of strength to defeat France. The Germans tried to lure the BEF stationed in France and the french army into Belgium by making it look like they were attacking through there, when actually the Germans were moving panzer divisions through the Ardennes forest and into France which took the allies completely by surprise. After the trap was successful the Germans surrounded the BEF and the French creating a large pocket within Belgium. Which led to the evacuation of Dunkirk. So they weren't as "wimpy" and "spineless" as thought.

 

I strongly suspect that Martin was waxing a bit sarcastic with the comment you are taking issue with.

 

They had been lead to believe and probably quite accurately that an attack on any of the three would result in a war with all three. Now when the US actually would get into it is another matter but it was very likely to be at a time that was far less convienent for the Japanese. This has been discussed a number of times on this board. The what if section would be a good place to look.

 

If Japan had attacked just the British and Dutch without going after American possessions, the US would likely be "in it" sooner rather than later.

The USS Isabel had been shadowing the Japanese invasion fleet and the schooner USS Lanikai was sent to relieve her. Also, Destroyer Division 57(USS Alden, USS Edsall, USS John D. Edwards, and the USS Whipple) was dispatched to Singapore to join the British "Force Z" shortly before the war began in the Pacific.Fortunately or unfortunately, DesDiv 57 arrived in Singapore after "Force Z" had sailed to it's doom.

The question is open as to whether tor not the Japanese would have fired on the USS Isabel(they did not because they were avoiding open hostilities until Kido Butai struck Pearl Harbor). Even if there is no attack on the USS Isabel, open hostilities between Japan and Great Britain & the Dutch would have put DesDiv 57 right in the line of fire.

However, if the Japanese decide to strike just the Dutch, units of the US Asiatic Fleet were also in those waters. Before being dispatched to Singapore, the previously mentioned DesDiv 57 and the destroyer tender USS Black Hawk(AD-9) were off Balikpapan, Borneo, and the light cruiser USS Marblehead and Destroyer Division 58(USS Paul Jones, USS Stewart, USS Bulmer, USS Barker, and the USS Parrott) were off Tarakan, Borneo. Given that the Japanese were not steaming to attack the Malay Peninsula, DesDiv 57 would not likely have been sent to Singapore, this would leave the USS Marblehead, USS Black Hawk, DesDiv 57, and DesDiv 58 directly in the path of the Japanese steamroller.

 

Greetings fellow Canuck!

As Martin Bull is in the UK, I'm certain that you can take his comment as sarcastic.