What happened to the Elefants?

After their debut at Kursk? The tank destroyer was reputably effective against Soviet Armor but suffered from mechanical problems. Where did they operate after Kursk and how was their record?

 

I know of some that were in the siege of Berlin in 1945. I believe there are only two still in existence . One of them is at the US Army Ordinance Museum and I don't know where the other is.

From my knowledge, they were mostly used on the Eastern front only, but I may be wrong.

 

Ferdinand was a heavy assault tank designed by Porsche and built by Nibelungenwerke, especially for the needs of the Eastern Front. Ferdinand's design was based on Porsche's Tiger - VK 4501(P) prototype which proved to be prone to mechanical failures and was rejected in favour of Henschel's prototype. It was decided to utilize 90 of the pre-production chassis for another project. First proposal was to convert them into carriers for 150mm or 170mm heavy howitzers as well as 210mm heavy mortar.

On September 22nd of 1942, it was ordered thatchassis were to be converted to heavy assault tanks armed with 88mm PaK 43/2 L/71 gun and on November 30th of 1942, first design was ready. On March 19th of 1943, first fully completed Ferdinand was presented to Adolf Hitler on the testing grounds at Ruegenwalde. Hitler himself was very pleased with it and order to speed up the production for upcoming summer offensive. From April to May of 1943, original 90 of VK 4501(P) chassis (150010-150100) were converted to Ferdinands by Nibelungenwerke in St. Valentin, Austria with the hard work of the dedicated workers. Conversion consisted of various modifications. Two original Porsche Typ 101/1 engines were replaced with proven Maybach HL 120 engines. New engines were mounted in the central section of the hull, allowing the superstructure (produced by Alkett) to be mounted in the rear. The superstructure weighted 15000kg. Also additional armor plates, that weighted 4500kg were bolted to the hull. Ferdinands (named after Dr.Ferdinand Porsche) were armed with powerful 88mm PaK 43/2 L/71 gun and had very thick armor ranging from 80mm side armor to 200mm frontal armor. Additional 7.92mm MG34 was carried inside for local defense.On May 8th, all Ferdinands left the factory without the protective shield around the mounting of the gun and by May 13th, Krupp shipped some to the Ferdinand units already stationed in the East. Inadequate number of shields was produced and some Ferdinands did not receive them. Each shield weighted 3500kg.

Ferdinand of Major Noak's sPzJagAbt 654, Kursk, July 1943.
Ferdinands were assigned to schwere Heeres Panzerjager Abteilung 653 and 654 (each was to be equipped with 45 Ferdinands), in preparation for the Kursk offensive (Unternehmen "Zitadelle") in July of 1943. Both units were formed in April of 1943 at Bruck. sPzJagAbt 653 was formed from personnel from 197th Sturmgeschuetz Abteilung. sPzJagAbt 653 was commanded by Major Steinwachs, while sPzJagAbt 654 by Major Karl-Heinz Noak, both (along with Sturmpanzerabteilung 216 - equipped with Brummbars) formed the 656 sPanzerjager Regiment commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel Jungenfled.In fact, sPzJagAbt 653 had 45 Ferdinands, while sPzJagAbt 654 had 44 Ferdinands as a single one was still being tested at Kummersdorf. In order to provide Ferdinands with ammunition, six Panzer IIIs were converted into Munition Schleppers attached to the Ferdinand units. 656 sPanzerjager Regiment was part of 41st Panzer Corps (under command of General Harpe) of Army Group Center for the upcoming operation.

Organization of schwere Heeres Panzerjager Abteilung 654 - July 1943.
Command Company
3 x Ferdinand
5th Company
2 x Ferdinand
6th Company
2 x Ferdinand
7th Company
2 x Ferdinand
Platoon
4 x Ferdinand
Platoon
4 x Ferdinand
Platoon
4 x Ferdinand
Platoon
4 x Ferdinand
Platoon
4 x Ferdinand
Platoon
4 x Ferdinand
Platoon
4 x Ferdinand
Platoon
4 x Ferdinand
Platoon
4 x Ferdinand ​

On the first days of action, Ferdinands were disaster due to the technical problems (few were lost because of the fuel line fires), the lack of adequate support and the most important the lack of a self-defense weapon. Many Ferdinands were destroyed either by their crews after being immobilized (by combat damage or mechanical problem) or by Soviet infantry and artillery as well as by SU-152 "Zwieroboj" heavy mechanised guns. It was recorded that some Ferdinand's crews (ex. Major Noak's crew) used to fire their 7.92mm MG34 machine guns through the barrel of main 88mm gun while others mounted their 7.92mm MG34 underneath the gun, in order to fire at the enemy infantry units. Temporary field-made solution was the rear mounted platform for Panzergrenadiers, but it only resulted in heavy casualties among them. During the Kursk offensive until November of 1943, Ferdinands from sPzJagAbt 653 destroyed some 320 Soviet tanks and lost 13 Ferdinands, while entire 656 sPanzerjager Regiment destroyed some 502 Soviet tanks and 100 other vehicles. Ferdinands proved to be very effective when employed behind the lines.

Ferdinand on the way to the front, Kursk, July 1943.

"On the first day of action, we successfully engaged bunkers, infantry, field and anti-tank artillery positions. For three hours our guns (Ferdinands) fought in the cavalcade of enemy fire and proved to be immune to enemy fire !. In the evening of the first day, first enemy tanks were destroyed, while others retreated. Crews of field and anti-tank guns run away after firing few uneffective shots against our guns (Ferdinands). In first engagements our regiment (656 sPanzerjager Regiment) destroyed numerous artillery positions, bunkers as well as 120 enemy tanks..." - Report from July 19th of 1943 by Platoon commander Boehm.

After the Kursk offensive, commanders reported their problems encountered while using the Ferdinands. The main problem was the lack of machine gun in the hull for self defense made, making the Ferdinands vulnerable to attacks of enemy infantry and anti-tank units. Other features such as: the gun mount (lack of traversing turret), drive system (Porsche's Tiger - VK4501(P)) and lack of power (weight/engine power ratio) were also giving trouble to their crews.

Ferdinand and Soviet infantry, Kursk, July 1943.

In October of 1943, 50 survivors were sent back to the factory for badly needed repairs and pre-planned modernization. Modernization consisted of the installation of a MG34 in the hull, improvement of armor protection, installation of wider tracks and installation of commander's cupola (developed from that of Stug III Ausf G), which provided improved visibility. Most of the Elephants were partially covered with Zimmerite, an anti-magnetic paste. Modernization was made in February and March of 1944 by Nibelungenwerke in Austria and modified Ferdinands were renamed Elephants. Officially Ferdinands were renamed Elephants in general order dated May 1st of 1944.

After modernization, 48 Elephants were grouped into schwere Heeres Panzerjager Abteilung 653 and part of it was transferred to Italy in late February of 1944. They arrived in Rome by train via Salzburg, Innsbruck, the Brenner Pass , Trento and Florence on February 24th of 1944. They saw combat at Nettuno, Anzio and Cisterna as early as March 1st of 1944. sPzJagAbt 654 was moved to France in late 1943 and rearmed with Jagdpanthers. In April of 1944, part of sPzJagAbt 653 was transferred back to the Eastern Front. In Autumn of 1944, all existing Elephants were grouped into newly created unit - schwere Heeres Panzerjager Kompanie 614, sPzJagAbt 653 was re-equipped with Jagdtigers. sPzJagAbt 614 with some 13-14 vehicles saw service on the Eastern Front as late as early 1945 and eventually all remaining (4?) Elephants saw final service with Kampfgruppe "Ritter" in area of Zossen (south of Berlin) in mid April of 1945. When employed defensively in Italy and Russia, Elephants proved to be formidable opponents. As of January 1st of 1945, there were still 4 Elephants in service of which some took part in the defence of Berlin as part of Kampfgruppe Ritter.

Bergepanzer Tiger(P) / Bergetiger(P) / Berge-Elephant

From August to September of 1943, three of original VK4501(P) tanks (issued to sPzJagAbt 653) and in October of 1943, two retired Ferdinands were converted to Bergepanzer Tiger(P). Hulls were modified and mounted in the rear with a small superstructure (with the components of PzKpfw IV) and engines were moved to a central location. Bergetiger(P) was equipped with 2ton crane and no other special equipment.The only armament was the 7.92mm MG34 mounted in the superstructure.
Elephant proved to be very effective weapon when operating at long range, for example one Elephant knocked out Soviet T-34 at the range of 4.5 kilometers. Overall, Elephant was a very advanced design, which proved to be a superb defensive weapon with an enormous firepower. Today, there is only two existing Ferdinand/Elephants, one in Kubinka, Russia (captured at Kursk) and second in Aberdeen, USA (captured at Anzio).



Achtung Panzer! - Ferdinand/Elephant

 

Combat history
All but two of the 91 available Ferdinands were put to use in the Battle of Kursk, the first combat the Ferdinand saw. Although they destroyed many Russian tanks, they performed quite poorly in other respects. Within the first four days nearly half of the vehicles were out of service, mostly due to technical problems and mine damage to tracks and suspensions. Actual combat losses to direct Soviet action were very low as the Ferdinand's very thick armor protected it from almost all Soviet anti tank weaponry. However, at this point in its development the Ferdinand lacked a machine gun or any secondary armament, making it vulnerable to attack by infantry. Most total losses of the Ferdinand occurred during the Soviet counter-offensive after the Kursk offensive, many damaged Ferdinands had to be abandoned as they were too heavy to tow and others were lost to mechanical breakdown during the retreat. The surviving vehicles saw further limited action on the Dniepr front during late 1943.
At this point they were recalled and modified at the works in Austria and received the name Elefant. While the modifications improved the vehicles, some problems could never be fully fixed. In 1944 the Elefants served on the Italian front but were rendered rather ineffective, as their weight of nearly 70 tons did not allow them to use most Italian roads and bridges. Due to a permanent lack of spare parts most of the units were not destroyed in battle, but abandoned and blown up by their own crews. One company of Ferdinands saw action during the Soviets' January 1945 Vistula-Oder Offensive in Poland, and the very last surviving vehicles were in combat at Zossen during the Battle of Berlin.
In terms of kills per loss, the Ferdinand/Elefant might well have been the most successful tank destroyer employed during the war, reaching an average ratio of approximately 10:1. This impressive ratio was primarily due to its extreme firepower / protection ratio, which gave it an enormous advantage when used in a defensive role. However, poor mobility and mechanical unreliability greatly diminished its offensive capability.

Elefant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The namechange of the Panzerjäger Tiger (P) "Ferdinand" to "Elefant"

Despite common belief, the name change of the Ferdinand to Elefant didn't occur because of the modifications introduced between 1944-01 and 1944-03, including the addition of a hull machine gun. The name change was suggested by Hitler on 1943-11-29, and was carried out through two orders, dated 1944-02-01 and 1944-02-27 respectively. Therefore, while the events didn't coincide, they were not related.

Myths about World War II

First saw action at Kursk.5,9 They were part of the Jagdpanzer Regiment 656 (Panzerjägerabteilungen 653 and 654)9. It saw service with the XXXXXI Panzer Corps on the north side of the battle. 502 Russian tanks, 20 antitank guns, 100 other guns were destroyed by July 27, 1943. Within the first four days several dozen broke down.5 However, a big weakness was the lack of a MG which allowed around 20 Elefants to fall victim to Russian anti-tank teams.5
They continued to fight until the end of 1943 at the Nikopol bridgehead and the Dniepr where they destroyed more than 200 Russian tanks.
During the winter of 1943-44 the remaining 50 (48 from another source) were recalled to Nibelungenwerke. At that time a MG34 bow MG was installed in the hull as well as a commander's cupola. Were issued to the 653rd Panzerjäger and the 614th Panzerjägerkompanie. Used mostly in Italy after that. Suffered from shortage of spare parts. Usually put out of action by mechanical failures more than by battle.

Germany's Sturmgeschütz/Panzerjäger mit 8.8cm PaK 43/2, SdKfz 184, "Ferdinand", "Elefant" - World War II Vehicles

 

S. Pzjr Abt 653 continued to operate on the Eastern Front until November 1944 at Krakow Poland when the remaining 14 Elefant were turned over to S. Pzjr Kp 614. The last two are claimed to have fought in the last days of the war in Berlin.

 

"In April of 1944, part of sPzJagAbt 653 was transferred back to the Eastern Front. In Autumn of 1944, all existing Elephants were grouped into newly created unit - schwere Heeres Panzerjager Kompanie 614, sPzJagAbt 653 was re-equipped with Jagdtigers. sPzJagAbt 614 with some 13-14 vehicles saw service on the Eastern Front as late as early 1945 and eventually all remaining (4?) Elephants saw final service with Kampfgruppe "Ritter" in area of Zossen (south of Berlin) in mid April of 1945. When employed defensively in Italy and Russia, Elephants proved to be formidable opponents. As of January 1st of 1945, there were still 4 Elephants in service of which some took part in the defence of Berlin as part of Kampfgruppe Ritter. "

 

The Elefant, despite its flaws, seems to be rather survivable vehicle that was potent against enemy armor and less problematic than the newer Jadgtiger.

 

And like the Jadgtiger too little too late and a waste of resources.With no signifigant impact on the war.

 

Reading more closely to the links, this vehicle was built on the a batch of 90 failed and unreliable proposed chasis for the competing Porshe "Tiger tank". Henshel, of course, won the contract.

Why the German govt. allowed Porshe to build 90 of these failed and unreliable chasis for a decisive "supertank" for Operation Citadel beats me...maybe the factory space was already set up and it was either build now or have nothing?

 

It's honestly surprising that this batch of 90 Elefants survived so long given all the retreating..

 

For breakthrough tank just a lousy piece of ****, but as a long distance tank killer definitely one of the best there was, I personally think.

Perhaps the best figures these tanks achieved in the Orel area battles after Kursk when the Red Army send their tanks in huge numbers to make a breakthrough.

"...when employed in its AT role Ferdinand proved to be a powerful defensive platform, capable of knocking out a T-34 on a 4,710 meters range. A Wehrmacht communicate on August 6th told that the two battalions had been credited for the destruction of 502 enemy tanks in the Orel sector! "

Ferdinand/Elefant

 

Failed and unreliable? Failed in the sense that the design was rejected and rightly so as too costly and complex mechnaically. But unreliable? I don't think this was as big a problem as it was with the later Henschel Tiger II and Jadgtiger. The Porsche electrical drive appears to have been reasonably reliable and far moreso than the conventional engine-transmission mechanical designs Henschel used. The suspension was also quite unique using a short lateral torsion bar in a truck bogie assembly that bolted on to the vehicle. This certainly simplified suspension maintenance over the interleaved / overlapped transverse torsion bar designs the Germans generally used.

That Porsche built 90 chassis prematurely was a mistake. I give you that.

 

T.A. Gardiner and Wolfy

There is a story that the 90 Tiger P were to be used in the Western desert as they were air cooled?

Try this web site for dispositions of Eleefants in the last months of WW2

http://www.sturmvogel.orbat.com/653.html

Steve

 

They were also used in Italy. Also, regarding the being very effective thing, anything with a long 88mm is a great tank killer.
Maintenance problems were also a nightmare since they used unique parts and well, more quartermaster work. I read that the Porsche chassis were built due to the fact that the porsche Tiger was all but guaranteed of being chosen for production, then, the Germans in some glimpse of logistical understanding decided to go on the slightly less complicated (while still a lot complicated) and somewhat more reliable Henshel model.
As for their survival, anything with 200mm thick armour has the potential to survive a lot of punishment . Still like others said, they were a waste of the already limited logistical platform of the German army.



Cheers...

 

Nope. Water cooled with dual radiator fans and radiators. Carries 2 x 11.9 liters of water for cooling. Each of the two generators is driven by an HL 120 TR 12 cylinder 230 hp engine and has a seperate radiator.

 

90 vehicles is not really a huge number for a "test batch" some allied AFV were built in much larger numbers and never saw combat due to technical problems. As the Germans were desperate for AFVs after Stalingrad they were sent to the front where overall it looks like they performed creditably when used as tank killers instead of assault guns though I can understand the mistake of initially attempting to use them as some sort of "Super Stug" which is a role they were not well suited for.
Even disregarding the report of 400 kills by the two batallions, a mobile Elephant with a good field of fire would have been a real nightmare for a T-34 or Sherman equipped force and the fact that some survived until the end makes me think they were a not horribly unreliable mechanically.

 

Yep! two x Porsche Type 101/1 Gasoline air cooled, four stoke, Vee 10 cylinders OHV output 230 b.h.p 2,500rpm bore 115mm stroke 145mm. 15.06litres.

Due to the failure of the Porsche 101/1 motor the Elephant had 2 x Maybach HL 120 TRM V12 Gasoline water cooled engine water cooled engine. Porsche however still attempted to get one of his engines into use and developed a shallow (almost horizontal) 16cylinder Vee diesel to replace the twin HL 120.

 

Dont disagree with your post as such, 250 T23s were turned down for the correct reason that it would have really messed up supply and technical services. Therefore they were better used at home in development and training to release production tanks for service overseas. Similar case with M4A6.

However Germany was in a different position with a smaller industrial base, 90 hulls and sub assemblies complete and a mad man in charge demanding his super tank, what else can you do?

I too was surprised how long these "unreliable" SPG lasted the recent stuff such as WW.W sturmvogel...is new to me but then I like Shermans etc, being electric drive it was very agile, capable of a pivot turn very useful for a Stug.

 

Took a long time to find this

View attachment 5735

The caption in Russian said it was abandoned in Sossen (Tsossena) in April 1945- The only Sossen I know of is near Cologne but I assume it is also a suburb of Berlin.

Steve

 

Probably Zossen, the German Army HQ near Berlin. The "Ts" transliteration would match the pronunciation of "Z" in German.

Cheers

BW