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What If Britain and France Did Not Declare War on Germany After the Polish Invasion?

Discussion in 'What If - European Theater - Western Front & Atlan' started by superjames1992, May 19, 2010.

  1. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I think Chamberlin was already aware when the the rest of the Czechs were taken. After that Chamberlain knew Hitler´s "all I wan"t was a joke.
     
  2. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    Chamberlain knew very well what Hitler wanted,every one with some knowledge of German knew what Hitler wanted,which was the continuation of the foreign policy of Weimar :the redress of the situation of august 1914/november 1918 in eastern Europe :,when Germany dominated Europe from the Rhine to a big part of Russia,and where there were no independent states,only satellites of Germany .

    But of course, the public,misinformed by non informed journalists thought that Hitler wanted only the return of the Germans to the Reich(something which was not possible without a German domination),the public was living in the castle in the air of democracy, right of the people to decide their own destiny being more important than the balance of power,while Hitler followed the traditional 19th century power policy,with something new : racism (although racism existed already before 1914,but the fall of the 2 great multicultural empires (Russia and AH) gave this racism free play.)
     
  3. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    I would agree with that statement. Chamberlain new what the end game was. When your only real play is to stay out of another war, especially when your own government is battling internally, and buy time. He was willing to take the chance.
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The west was living in the shadow of guilt. They somehow though felt they had done wrong in the Versailles Treaty and thought giving these "small victories" would make it good. How wrong they were. I recall reading that even the UK gave a big loan to Germany in the mid 30-s to boost its economy. I might be wrong or the author, unfortunately I don´t have it with me but I sure remember it. All the money went to guns and ammo.
     
  5. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    Yes...I happen to remember reading that as well (or saw in a documentry). Another of the numerous reasons how Hitler came to push his weight around.
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    If you want to know how to make an army without money you should read how Hjalmar Schacht did it. Without his help Hitler would have been a zero. At times Germany was just 1-2 weeks away from total collapse without currency.
     
  7. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Indeed the table on page 27 of this document shows that US defence spending started ramping up in 1935
    http://www.analysis.williamdoneil.com/CIM_D0007249.A1.pdf
    I'd like to see sources that backup British investments of " billions of £" in the late 30's though. Indeed I doubt that France and Britain combined came anywhere close to investing even a billion £ much less several atimes that.

    That may have been part of the reason Chamberland was willing to play for time for a while. The Nazi economy was a giant Ponzy scheme just waiting to unravel. If war had been averted for a few more years it might well have imploded without the need to go to war.
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Hitler was forced to go to war due to his policy. Otherwise his "country" would have collapsed. Even Hjalmar was saying to Hitler he cannot put all the money in ammunition and guns but...
     
  9. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member Patron  

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    I must confess to some amazement to the conceit that Nazi Germany's economy was always "just months" away from collapse and with it his control of the country. I do not question that it was poorly founded but the evidence of history would suggest otherwise.

    Totalitarian countries have rarely fallen quickly to economic mismanagement, or even to economic degradation inflicted from without. Further no one can accuse Hitler of lacking the will to keep a restless population under control.
     
  10. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    I believe Hitler's means of attacking the economic depression was a farce. I do not believe a collapse was weeks or months away, but blue collar folk were rationed and agriculture took a huge loss throughout the1930's. In essence, one might say that the German economy had nowhere to go but up and was a giant smokescreen. Yes, the National Labour Service, for example, provided employment and but at an expense of lower cost of living. In addition, the numbers were very skewed as many members of the population (Jews for example) were not included in the economic figures.
     
  11. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    On German economy Adam Tooze and wages of destruction is excellent.

    Actually according to it, the German family was poorer in 1939 than in 1933 when Hitler came to power. Everything about being better was propaganda.
     
  12. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    I would have to agree. Especially when the "miracle" of declining unemployment was a magic act by simple bookkeeping.
     
  13. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    This is a wrong interpretation : the average German was better of in 1939 than in 1933 and unemployment had disappeared : there was a shortage of workers .There were in 1933 6 million people without a job, in 1939 there were less than 1 million people without a job .
     
  14. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    'Always "just months"' from collapse is a bit of exageration unless one allows for just to include two or three digits. In the early 30's the German economy was a bit fragile but the combination of trying to include both guns and butter had pushed it to the limit by the late 30's. Indeed the Austrian and Check gold reserves arguably kept Germany afloat until the war started. Without them the situation in Germany would have reached a crisis level before 41. As has been suggested Wages of Destruction is well worth reading on this topic.


    Or not. See for instance:

    Then when you consider things such as mentioned at:
    http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/the-nazis-and-the-german-economy/
     
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  15. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    You beat me to it :). The above evidence is definitive enough to explain that the unemployment figures were a farce and another tool of the propaganda machine. These solutions were short term militarily driven solutions. The amount of typical Germans rationing and without common goods was an ever growing problem.
     
  16. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Just like in the modern times, every time the youngsters go to college in huge numbers the politicians say they did what they promised: the number of unemployed has suddenly decreased by massive figures...
     

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