Which nation's fighter pilots shot down more planes in WW2? USA or Germany?

Does anybody have an accurate statistic on the matter?

 

Germany of course. They started much earlier and fought until the bitter end. The highest allied ace would "only" be an average ace compared to Lw figures.

Just check out a guy like Rödel Aces of the Luftwaffe - Gustav Rödel if this not enough here are more Kacha`s Luftwaffe Page

 

I meant the Grand total 1939-1945- I know that German aces had those massive scores thanks to the Russians but the Americans also had the privilege of beating the undertrained Japanese and late war untrained German pilots in air combat..

 

Not only Russians, were the victims of the LW , ask that to the last survivors of the thousands allied airmen who got shot over western Europe.

RAF: Fighter Command about 5500 losses.

For USAAF losses go here : USAAF Losses in WW2

 

Germany by far.

America's #1 Ace had around 40 kills, Germany's 352.

 

Germany

 

Hm. The Luftwaffe had pilots with many many kills, but there were relatively few of them taken as a whole. It might not be as simple as you think. Germany's losses in the air were catastrophic 44-45.

 

add to what the LW had at night just versus Bomber Command, a depressing 7,000 plus and this does not cover thes cores against the Soviets on the Ost front at night either.

Germany hands down even with some pretty bogus claims for both night and day of some aces the totals overall are higher than any other country during the conflict. While US fg history's give a good diea of the carnage they took on he LW in 44-45 if one would have access to the LW day fighter gruppen only and see just how many LW pilots scored from 1 kill upward the amount is overwhelming

 

Not only that, but German aircraft losses from air-ground attack were huge. But this doesn't count, as it isn't a factor that relates to air combat.

 

It would be difficult to get accuate numbers but I would lean toward the US since it was in most of the theaters of WWII with decent pilots and planes.
Many Japanese losses plus alot of Italian and German losses but it would be hard to tell the difference since some countries counted air to air kills differently than air to ground kills for strafing aircraft on the ground.

Germany would be a close #2 with all the Russian aircraft lost to German guns.

 

I would think that in a "one to one" comparison it would be the Luftwaffe, but not because of some superiority of either pilots or aircraft. Rather it would be a short-sighted (short war) policy which Hitler had taken to heart before the war really got going.

USAAF fighter pilots originally served a tour of 50 or 75 combat sorties, i.e. missions (depended on the theater) and were then pulled out of the fight to train new pilots. In the Axis, you flew until you died, were too severely wounded to fly, or the war ended. In the USAAF, once you had proven yourself in combat, you got promoted and rotated home with a view toward teaching the newcomers. I know that Thomas B. McGuire himself wrote an air-to-air tactic manual before he was himself shot down, probably trying to "best" Bong who was already home with 40 kills. Richard Ira Bong (USA’s top ace with 40) was rotated home to the US to teach air combat tactics, sell war bonds, and be test pilot on the P-80, in which he died after an engine explosion on take-off.

As for shooting down bombers and counting them as air-kills, that may be true for the Brits, Nazis and Japanese, but the USAAF ace pilots listed in the ETO had almost totally fighter kills simply because of what was in the sky at the time, with the exception of the AVG in the CBI early on. There were not too many Axis bombers for the 8th Fighter Command to shoot down from mid-43 to early-45. And except for Captain McCampbell, most of those Bong & McGuire kills in the PTO were fighter v fighter air-to-air kills. Another interesting stat would be the number of German fighters shot down by gunners on B-17s, B-24s & Lancs.

Toward the end of the war long serving but superb Luftwaffe pilots, although dwindling in numbers as the war progressed, flew incredible numbers of sorties. The survivors were truly the best of the best. However, as a consequence the new Luftwaffe pilots did not receive the benefit of training with/from these aces and thus were themselves shot down before they could begin to learn the skills needed to live and fight another day.

In contrast new American pilots probably came on line with enough skill to survive their initial contacts, learn from the contact and repeat the cycle of the veterans who had trained them. They eventually even faced a shortage of air targets, and it was this lack of airborne opponents in early '44 which caused the 8th Air Force to begin to allow "ground kills" to be credited the same as "air kills" toward "ace" status in the ETO. Then as to the "partial" counts, American gun-camera footage sometimes showed two or three pilots shooting at the same target, so the "kill" was divided between them.

Now the 3 top US pilots earned their scores, in one tour, in the Pacific under very different circumstances than what their compatriots faced in Europe. And don’t forget that generally American fighter pilots in both theaters invariably had to travel long distances just to engage enemy aircraft. In contrast most Axis aircraft flew shorter ranges and could generate multiple sorties daily, even if shot down! As an example Eric Hartmann flew 1404 sorties in his Luftwaffe service, is it any wonder he scored his total? The very high number of sorties flown by Luftwaffe pilots before they were killed (and most of the pilots with more than 100 kills were KIA), or the war ended helped in the total count.

Also, lest we forget, that except for the "Flying Tigers", AVG in China (late Dec. 1941), everybody else in the world had been shooting at each other for years before mainstream USAAC (F) or USN air could or were deployed massively. The Japanese were in China, the Germans and Soviets were in Spain, Soviets in Finland, and then the Germans in Poland and USSR; Germans, French, Free French and Brits were also shooting at each other all over both Europe and Africa; remember that air-to-air kill totals also carry over from campaign to campaign.

So, who shot down the most? Probably the Luftwaffe when all theaters, and all pilots are considered. The US just wasn't in the competions for as long a time, nor did they have the same draconian "fly 'til ya die" rules.

 

Bong acheived his in a less target rich environment and shorter tour of duties. Hartmann flew from 1942 to the end of the war in a much more target rich environment. Who had the most opportunities to score?

 

Here's a pretty comprehensive list.
List of World War II air aces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although it does not include pilots with less than 10 kills.

It would be interesting to see what the numbers are for pilots who were not aces as well as for kills made by the gunners on allied bombers.

 

Thats an impressive number......lol. Is that like
"A bazilliontrilliongillionmillionhundredthousand" ?

 

I found this one interesting for WWII victory credits by name. Overall a good site too.

http://aces.safarikovi.org/victories/doc/usaf.aerial.victory.credits-wwii-by.name.pdf

Jan J. Safarik: Air Aces

 

Context is everything..........thanks for being a good sport....lol

Brad

 

If we look at wiki Equipment losses in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia it lists German losses (total) as almost 117,000, Japanese losses as 35,000 to 50,000, and Italian losses as a bit over 5,000 so total losses for the axis were probably in excess of 150,000 planes and perhaps as many 165,000. It lists the Soviet losses as ~106,000, UK losses as 22,000, and US losses as ~45,000 for a total of ~170,000. Now this includes operational losses as well as aircraft destroyed on the ground so it's not definitive but I'd have to say these numbers tend to suggest the Germans shot down more but it's close enough that it is hard to call.