Anyone wanna talk about the Westland Whirlwind ? A sexy looking plane, huh ? I remember once talking to my step father ( in the days when the miserable old scrote would talk to people !).Although he navigated Mossies in WW2, he always said that he has well remembers seeing a Whirlwind at Westland's factory and that he was well impressed with how it looked, saying that it looked like it was 300 MPH even when parked up. Marlin
The Whirlwind had potential in some respects, but had very significant problems. I have read that it was tricky to fly, the RR Peregrines were unreliable, it required a good, long runway for takeoff and the armament only carried enough ammunition for about 5-6 seconds of gunfire. None of this (Except probably the runway) was necessarily uncorrectable, I have read that the Merlin was not suitable for mounting on the Whirlwind, so only time and R&D at RR would solve the reliability problems (And would the airministry ever have been willing to take resources from the Merlin at that stage?). The ammunition problem could be cured, but in the mean time Whirlwind pilots would have to be very sure of their shots before wasting any of their precious few seconds of cannon ammo, something that wouldn't bother the Bf109s or Fw190s who could afford to spray their 60 seconds (For the Bf109) of machinegun fire around the sky quite recklessly in comparison in the hope of scoring a lucky hit. The Runway problem though was probably the killer though, no potential for deployment to N.Africa, the Far East, Malta, meaning that the Whirlwind would always be a home bird, and the single pilot and small fuselage would limit the potential to convert to a night-fighter.
I remember reading somewhere they were quite good/ popular on anti-shipping missions, carrying a couple of bombs (250 lb? 500lb?) And, providing you got actual hits, wouldn't 5-6 seconds of 4 x 20 mm be at least as effective as 60 seconds of 7.92 mm?
Yes, but the thing is that unlike most of their adversaries Whirlwind pilots had to be really sure of their shots before using any of their ammunition, Bf109 and Fw190 pilots by comparison could take the chance on a lucky hit with their machineguns at long ranges, or use their machineguns to aim onto the target, triggering their cannon once they saw the Mgs strike. No such luxury for the Whirlwind, who would have to get close and preferably zero deflection, and had to trust his own gunnery skills (Which let's face it wasn't a strongpoint of the RAF at the time of the Whirlwind's introduction) rather than have the bonus of using the Mgs to aim on.
Looks like it - read the code - reversed text BTW, did a quick google. They were 1000 lb bombs, two of them. But the first combat report I came across said "fired his entire ammunition load without apparent effect". Hmm, I could do that without training.
Thanks for the beautiful pic. When I was no bigger than a gnat's knacker and long before I became interested in aircraft, I saw a pic of a Whirlwind and it really rang my bells. I think that is was one of these that got me interested in aircraft. It's shape is slicker than snot on a wet dog's back, and as for that firepower............Jeez, a bunch of Hispano-Suiza cannon in an airplanes nose, well, the punch may only have been of a few seconds duration, but, for crying out load- what a punch ! Until the beaufighter and Mossie came along ( and maybe the Typhoon ), there was little else that equalled a Whirlwind as an anti shipping/ground attack aircraft. Marlin.
They did also use a experimental nose with 37mm cannon, did this version become a serial one ? Regards, Che.
With those engine cowlings and leading edge radiator intakes it could hardly be anything else. Moreover, I have info on this version fitted with a 37mm cannon ( I believe ) and will revert. Marlin
hmm, I would like to say that it´s the cockpit´s same postion as by an ordinary Westland Whirlwind http://www.studenten.net/customasp/axl/ ... 390&page=0 You can see, that it´s the Westland Whirlwind´s nose on this page. Regards, Che.
If we're looking at variants I'm fairly sure that either Interceptor by James Golding (Goulding?) or Tony Buttler's British Secret Projects (the third one covering WWII period) has drawings for a twin-tail Whirlwind as well.
Yep, there was a twin tailed design, but I don't think it went into production. The position of the cockpit will, I think, have been distorted by the lengthened nose required for the 37 mm gun. marlin
It is usually described as a 37 mm gun, but it wasn't. If you look closely you can see the 'Recoil Reducer Mark 1' on the muzzle which identifies it as being a 20mm Hispano. The reason for the odd installation is that it was testing the mounting for a proposed large-calibre gun, which was never actually fitted - this probably led to the confusion. I'm not sure if the gun would have been a 37mm anyway. The UK had no guns of this calibre, except for a few old WW1 COW guns. The Whirlwind was however considered for fitting with the 40mm Vickers S gun, as carried underwing by the Hurricane IID and IV, so that was probably what was intended. Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
Yes, but wasn't it the WW1 COW guns that were being considered for installation in Mosquitos before Molins got the shell feed problem sorted with the 6 pdr. that was then used instead ? Marlin.
Not that I know of (although almost anything might have been considered). The Mossie was considered as a carrier for a pair of 40mm S guns. I recall reading in the PRO that in the desperate days of autumn 1940 the RAF did look around to see what cannon could be fitted to aircraft for the anti-tank role in the event of a German invasion. They considered the COW gun then, but decided that there wasn't much ammo left, and it was rather old and unreliable, so they strapped 20mm Hispanos onto Lysander undercarriage legs instead! Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
In the Western Desert they had a similar desperate fix that involved strapping a 20mm cannon into the nose of a Blenhiem (fighter Blenhiems had previously been used with good effect to strafe columns of lorries etc). Thankfully this was never needed. Thankfully because all the aircrew who had been trained in strafing ground targets (how to fly towards the ground and not crash) had been transferred out of the desert, and when the guns were delivered they forgot to include any maintenance tools etc, so they would typically jam after one shot (or 2 if lucky) was fired. This info comes from the official history of 45 Squadron, the Flying Camels (which I bought for a friend whose dad was the gunner in the CO's plane)
Lysanders Talking about Lizzies, has anyone ever soon tha movie footage of a Lysander being chased by a -109 ? It is often used in documentaries about Dunkirk and consists of a Lysander jinkning about all over the place and a -109 having to lower it's undercart to slow down enough to get a shot in. Unfortunately, the Lysander was just skimming the waves and had a wingtip go into the drink when attempting a very tight bank to starboard. Exeunt one Lysander. I'd like to say that the -109 followed him in, but the film finishes when the Lizzie went in. Marlin.
The Whirlwind was originally designed with twin tails. But wind-tunnel testing showed that the twin tail configuration could cause instability at high speeds and, more seriously, that the Fowler flaps, when fully lowered, would render the elevators almost ineffective due to 'blanketing'*. The tail unit was redesigned and was ready by the time the first mock-up was ready in June 1937. But did they ever fit the 12 x .303 'weapon egg' built by Martin Baker to a flying Whirlwind? * 'Westland Aircraft since 1915' by Derek N. James
