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Why are football players kneeling?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Ken The Kanuck, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Ken The Kanuck

    Ken The Kanuck Member Patron  

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  2. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru Patron  

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    Racial Injustice...ironically, the person who started the thing doesn't have anything to complain about. He was adopted and raised in a rich, white household and has never been discriminated against in his life while being fed by a silver spoon. I don't understand what they think they are accomplishing with their kneeling - they are all being paid millions of dollars, why not spend that money on improving those neighborhoods with programs like the Boys&Girls Club etc? I also don't think they should use their work place as a place of protest - people are paying $$$ to go to these games, not to see their protests. Protest all they like off the field, but when they're on the field, they should act like professionals and focus on the game. It will be interesting to see what the NFL's bottom line is at the end of this season as viewers tune out because of it.

    Apparently some players kneeled during the American Anthem but stood for God Save The Queen...very disrespectful if you ask me.

    They're also lucky they are all professional athletes - most people protesting during the anthem like that in a work place would get fired on the spot! Its an extension of the BLM movement (which is ironic on its own right...protesting cops killing criminals while ignoring the hundreds and hundreds of black-on-black killings) but this thread is headed deep into the politics.
     
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  3. The_Historian

    The_Historian Pillboxologist Patron  

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    Virtue-signalling by any other name.
    Or as we call it in the real world, bandwagon-jumping.
     
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  4. TD-Tommy776

    TD-Tommy776 Man of Constant Sorrow Patron  

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    You both have hit the nail on the head, IMO. This all began last year when an average quarterback decided America was an oppressive country. He protested not just by kneeling during the National Anthem, but by wearing "cops are pigs" socks, and a t-shirt lauding Hugo Chavez. This year, everybody involved has pretty much bollixed up their handling of it. NFL Commissioner, Roger Goodell, deserves much of the blame for it getting this far. He seems to be more interested in preventing players from wearing the wrong brand of shoes ("wrong" being defined as a competitor to the brand with which the NFL has a contract).

    For my part, I'm through with the NFL, at least for now. I'm hopeful that they'll figure out that a lot of us watched [American] Football because it was an escape from the politics of the day. Until they do figure that out, they will continue to alienate a significant percentage of their once-loyal fan base.
     
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  5. JJWilson

    JJWilson Active Member

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    I believe these players have the right to practice their first amendment right of freedom of speech, but during a football game? I appreciate that some of the players want to promote change, but there are so many other ways to do that than kneeling for the national anthem. Football should stay concerned with football. Racial equality and police treatment of blacks is better now than it was 10 years ago, people now have the ability to film the arrests and altercations making it seem like the police are targeting blacks or latino's or whoever. The Media and the lack of knowledge among many Americans today only adds to the situation unfortunately. Not to mention some rather unfortunate remarks from our President doesn't help either.
     
  6. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    In Australia AFL (Aussie Rules) is thebiggest sport and has promoted various things over the years...Breast cancer, where a team will wear pink for a game...even a week celebrating our Indigenous people and players with "Dreamtime at the G" (MCG - Melbourne cricket ground) - But Australia is in the middle of deciding whether gay people can get married or not...the pollies decided for various reasons to put the question to a plebiscite instead of doing their jobs and just passing the law...the split is about 40% against and 60% for the "YES" side...the thing is AFL has decided to play politics and change their logo to a YES instead of the AFL sign at their HQ...NRL this week for the Grand Final (Superbowl) decided to get Macklemore from the US to sing his songs during half time...including the "gay anthem" song...with rainbow flairs and flags waving....
    Now, whether one agrees with same sex marriage or not doesn't matter, sport should NOT involve itself in politics...im considering asking the AFL its position on North Korea!
    Instead of bringing people together as sport should, its created a divide 60/40...what a total f**k up!
     
  7. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I can't seem to find the clause in the First Amendment that says "except football players, during football games". :)

    Freedom of speech includes the right:
    • Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag).
      West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943).
    • Of students to wear black armbands to school to protest a war (“Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.”).
      Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969).
    • To use certain offensive words and phrases to convey political messages.
      Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971).
    • To contribute money (under certain circumstances) to political campaigns.
      Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976).
    • To advertise commercial products and professional services (with some restrictions).
      Virginia Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748 (1976); Bates v. State Bar of Arizona, 433 U.S. 350 (1977).
    • To engage in symbolic speech, (e.g., burning the flag in protest).
      Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).
    Freedom of speech does not include the right:
    • To incite actions that would harm others (e.g.,“Shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.”).
      • Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919).
      • To make or distribute obscene materials.
        Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 (1957).
      • To burn draft cards as an anti-war protest.
        United States v. O’Brien, 391 U.S. 367 (1968).
      • To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration.
        Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).
      • Of students to make an obscene speech at a school-sponsored event.
        Bethel School District #43 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675 (1986).
      • Of students to advocate illegal drug use at a school-sponsored event.
        Morse v. Frederick, __ U.S. __ (2007).



     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
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  8. JJWilson

    JJWilson Active Member

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  9. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    This freedom of speech mentioned has nothing to do when the two sides involved are private citizens. The Bill of Rights spells out the relationship between the government and those governed, not between an audience and athletes.

    A prime example of that relationship is this forum. You can post anything you like, as long as the owner allows it. The same goes with the players on a football field.

    One thing they need to remember. They are putting on a show when they play the game-getting paid handsomely to do so, mind you-and they need to remember that you don't piss off your audience, which they are doing.

    I've not watched the NFL in over 30 years, mainly because the thugs on the teams were allowed to commit all manner of crimes and suffer very little beyond a slap on the wrist.

    This is what that bassturd said. "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," He disgusts me.
     
  10. Ken The Kanuck

    Ken The Kanuck Member Patron  

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    From another site.

    There are two sets of rules for the NFL. The NFL Rulebook and the NFL Game operations Manual. The rulebook is all about the rules of game the itself and makes no mention of the national anthem, however the game operations manual does. Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem:


    The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
    During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.It's important to note the use of the word "may" here. The NFL is not considering punishing fines on players an NFL spokesperson says...

    Question? Why the Hell not???????

    http://time.com/4955704/nfl-league-r...l-anthem-rule/
     
  11. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    Because the United States has gone from a divided country to a fractured Republic. Don't expect change anytime soon.
     
  12. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru Patron  

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    Some one on facebook posted some stats about football plays over the last 17 years...in regards to the roughly 480 Arrests of NFL players by the Police over that period...the end of the meme saying "No wonder NFL Players hate the police so much"...
     
  13. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    Many may not realize it, but prior to 2010 (IIR the date correctly) that "rule" did not exist and, unlike at baseball games where the tradition is quite old, that activity did not occur. The U.S. Army paid the NFL to include the National Anthem with players on the sidelines as part of a recruitment advertising campaign and the fan response was such that the NFL decided to continue with it as a regular feature.
     
  14. toki2

    toki2 Active Member

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    Got rid of the flag waving, national anthem stuff in UK (with some exceptions) years ago. People should show respect for their country by working, paying taxes, voting and obeying the law of the land. We have the freedom for peaceful protest and access to redress through the courts. Anybody could stand for their anthem, hand on heart, yet be screwing the system and betraying their country and fellow citizens at the same time. Actions count not gestures.
     
  15. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Its a respect thing...The country that gave you life, nurtured, educated and fed you...the country that gives you a safe home and employment...the country that allows your kids to grow up and have dreams...One doesn't need to show respect to politicians, but the country (and those who work to preserve it) should get the full dose of respect anytime its appropriate - like a flag raising or anthem.
    We have people here in Australia too that haven't travelled and therefore are unaware of just how lucky they are...the opportunities afforded to them and the LAW that protects them...they don't understand true oppression or true racism...they have a country where they are allowed to whinge.
    A quote from a former Australian Prime Minister "Life wasn't meant to be easy" - Needs to be taught to everyone under the age of 60 IMO
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
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  16. JJWilson

    JJWilson Active Member

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    Football is by far my favorite sport, it is really sad that half of the news regarding the NFL isn't even about football anymore. I'll continue to watch football for now, but if the whole kneeling thing overshadows the playing, then I'm out. I watch football and other sports to distract myself from personal and political crappiness, lately I haven't been very distracted.
     
  17. Ken The Kanuck

    Ken The Kanuck Member Patron  

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    Yes, I agree that actions speak louder than words or gestures. Just like getting up to give a lady your seat, my Mom taught me to do that as a sign of respect. Also to say please and thank-you. It's all tied together and become part of who we are.

    KTK
     
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  18. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Action and gestures go hand in hand...both are examples to the public - who rely on their elders and heroes to show the way in "culture" and always have.
     
  19. Mutley

    Mutley Active Member

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    I remember laughing at that video clip where Melania had to nudge Trump to remind him to place his hand over his heart during the anthem. All a bit rich coming from a man who fails to show respect for it himself.
     
  20. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    It's not a first amendment issue it's a condition of employment issue. When they signed their player contract they agreed to abide by certain rules. They are now breaking those rules. The NFL should either enforce the rules or remove them or both.
     

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