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Win one for us gun-totin' Gippers! :-))

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by C.Evans, Jun 26, 2008.

  1. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Hi Miguel, rest assurred, my comments against a Miguel are for the other Miguel. Gettin'ind of confusing with all the Miguels running around here ;-)) But seriously, you don't have to worry about me moving to Portugal anytime soon-and plus--I aint giving up my guns ;-))

     
  2. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    One stupid thing about this country is that we have a tremendous lack of imagination, 5% of all males are called Miguel, the others are Manuel. All females are named Maria :lol:
     
  3. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

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    For the upteenth time, I'm not against gun ownership. I merelly stated that your law is too broad. It allows for many people who should never come across a gun own it.
    And I attempted to show that the site DA gave me was not the best one to use a a source. That's why I compared US with the most violent country there is in that site.


    Cheers...
     
  4. skunk works

    skunk works Ace

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    Patient...."Hey Doc, I broke my arm in four places."

    Doctor...."Stay outta them places." :D
     
  5. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    You don't even understand our laws or how they work. If you think the Second Amendment is the beginning and end of the applicable gun ownership laws in the United States, you are sadly misinformed.

    If you think the laws in any country are what determines who gets to possess a gun, you are sadly misinformed. Criminals in all countries ignore the laws and obtain guns illegally through a variety of sources.

    As for the website I referenced, If you don't like the data, then it must be incorrect? GunCite: gun control and Second Amendment issues is the most scholarly, best footnoted, best sourced, most complete, website on the issue of the Second Amendment, firearms ownership, firearms violence, and international firearms issues available on the net. If you disagree with this, I challenge you to cite an example of a better site.

    If you disagree with the specific data (the international violent death comparison table) I referenced, I challenge you to show exactly why the data is incorrect. Just claiming it is wrong or inapplicable does not make it so.
     
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  6. mikebatzel

    mikebatzel Dreadnaught

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    Thats absolutly correct Carl, we don't live in fear. This applys to most of the people I know. We don't carry firearms because we feel there is danger lurking around every corner, but because it is our constitutional right to do so.
     
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  7. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Aquila non capit muscas

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    No doubt, but the criminal examples quoted in this thread in several instances seemed to be rather undergunned as compared to the descriptions by the local law abiding citizens :D
     
  8. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    And we can only hope that this is always the case.:p
    Never bring just your knife to a gunfight.:eek:

    I'm not particularly trusting of statistics showing which city or country is the most violent. The numbers are only as good as how well they are reported and apparently the US (and many European countries) do a good job in this regard while in other countries, it is at best a hit or miss proposition.

    A few years ago, a physician I used to work with went to Central America to do volunteer orthopedic surgery in a large city. He was there for slightly less than 2 weeks. While he was there, there were 3 murders on the street outside the hospital. In all three cases, the police never came and the victim lay there until other people, presumably friends or family, came and picked up the body. There was no police investigation on any of them as far as could be determined. And this was just one block in a very large city.
     
  9. skunk works

    skunk works Ace

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    It's really nice of the Watermelon Nannies trying to "child-proof" our country from a distance, in case they ever show up.
    I suggest they start with Africa, then all of South America, then China.
    Once they succeed these places, they may be worth listening to.
    Until then....:blahblah:

    Armies included because 8 year old "General" Scoobedoo does not get a pass to carry an AK & RPG because he's military.

    General....skunk works :blahblah:


     
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  10. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    Anecdotal evidence is even less reliable than statistical evidence.

    In my opinion, both are worthless in deciding whether one should carry a firearm.
     
  11. Herr Oberst

    Herr Oberst Member

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    That is just plain wrong and not factual, bordering on nonsense. What's your source for that info?

    Well said

    Again another intelligent response, Firearms owners don't live in fear. Gun control takes the weapons away from citizens trying to protect themselves and their families and does not curb crime or reduce violence. Massachusetts is a prime example of gun control not working.

    Page 3 of this thread should be moved to the Oh Pulease thread....broken record once again....:rolleyes:

    Yes, maybe some factual counterpoints to DA's post rather than his comment about "tough guy";)

    What is truly causing fear is that this decision was 5 to 4!!!!
     
  12. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Thats OK, we have plenty of those around here as well ;-D and including Juans, Carlos's Rey's, Roy's, Rubens etc etc etc. And besides, one of my best friends here in town is named Maunel, and one of my ex-girlfriends name is Maria.
     
  13. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Yeah, that may be so but, you still aint said what was so broad and sweeping about our gun laws? The US is not more violent than many Countries including of course, Iraq, Afghanistan, some of the former Soviet Unions states etc etc but you always fail to say anything about those countries. I wonder why? Hmmm, I guess so it's to make the US into the worst of the worst-when in fact, it aint.
     
  14. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Thanks Mike, Gents, and well said. Sorry my reply is short-so's my time on the 'puter.
     
  15. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

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    cause they're at war...



    Cheers...
     
  16. tikilal

    tikilal Ace

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    I am trying to avoid the opinions and the arguments here and just to respond to a few points.

    That statement was based off of precedents from other cases. The issue I had was with the view that the Constitution does not protect the right to bear arms, ie all arms every where.

    The original language is very clear, every Citizen has the right to bear arms.

    The problem is not the guns the problem is the people. a gun sitting on a shelf never killed anyone.

    According to the Department of Justice it is handguns at a rate of 3 to 1 that are used most often in homicide.

    Liberties are too broad when God gives them to every man. The problem is not the guns it is the people. Granted that if we are not worthy of these rights then then will be taken away. But instead of complaining about gun laws complain about bad people. Oh and just to let you know, 70-80% of guns used in crime are illegal guns anyway. Police are supposedly lookinng for these illegal guns now.
     
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  17. tikilal

    tikilal Ace

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    Oh and just a side note more people die in the US of A every year because of drunk driving then guns, so should we outlaw alcohol instead of guns?????
     
  18. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    And your source for this is what????? There are 10 - 13 yr olds killing homeless (unarmed and easy targets) people just for the thrill. People on drugs do things they normally would not. If one them is high and mugging you, are you willing to take that chance that they will not harm you? What if you don't have any cash on you? Are they just going to let you go unharmed? Give me a break.

    You also quote an incident where you resisted using martial arts. Why not give him what he wanted like you have been advocating. What if he also knew marital arts and made Swiss Cheese of you? The person you ran into made a mistake which ended up botching the mugging. That was plain luck that saved you, not your martial arts. But according to you, your life is not threatened if you cooperate. So why did you resist? I figure the answer you give is the reason why we who carry arms choose to do so.

    I'm not forcing you to accept that I choose to carry arms. So don't push your values and opinions on me. This is a great country and yes it is not perfect but great nonetheless. I thank God every chance I get for letting me be born here. This country gives opportunities to do great things. Freedom is not free. There is a price. With freedom, comes opportunities for the criminally inclined to take advantage. Russia is currently going through this with their Mafias and Corrupted Officials. So do the Russian people wish for the good ole days of communism where crime was low???? Or do they cherish their new found freedom along with the heavy price. Iraq is another country going through this.

    This is the USA and we have a right to bear arms. Accept it or leave it. But don't argue about it. This country allows freedom of speech. You've made your opinion known and that is acceptable. Trying to force me to change what I believe is not.
     
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  19. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    I am surprised here. With great respect to you Stefan, I think you are dishing out the BS here. Are you labeling us as vigilantes? If not, why bring in this firecracker?

    I don't recall seeing anyone here advocate going out and looking for criminals to gun them down. We are talking about defending ourselves/others with guns against criminal attacks. All within the law.
     
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  20. JCFalkenbergIII

    JCFalkenbergIII Expert

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    Thanks for the posts PzJgr. I agree. Those who live here know better then those who don't. Simple as that.
     
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