WWII ribbons

I have my Dad's DD214, and I'm trying to make a shadow box for my brother with some of Dad's things. He had several ribbons, but I don't think all were his. Maybe he traded for some or won them in poker? Anyway, I don't want to put ribbons in the shadow box that weren't his.

He was a Surgical Technician (861), and served in Tunisian, Naples Foggia, and Rome Arno Campaigns. Under decorations, it lists Three Bronze Battle starts for the above campaigns and a good conduct medal. In the remarks section, it says "Lapel Button issued; No time lost under AW 107; and European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign medal. Five overseas service bars."

The ribbons that aren't listed (but were in his things) were a Navy/Marine Commendation ribbon and a Navy Unit commendation ribbon, as well as two Navy Marksmanship ribbons (one for rifleman and one for pistol).These are the ones I suspect were not actually his. The National Defense ribbon (which I think he was entitled to) was on the same bar as the two navy marksmanship ribbons; so that is confusing.

I'm attaching a document with pics of the ribbons as I have identified them.

Could someone help me in determining how to arrange the ribbons I should include. I'm guessing I should include the first four ribbons shown.

Thanks,
Bonnie View attachment 18724

 

The marksmanship ribbons may indeed be his. They are not "awards" and often not included on a DD214. He would have earned those in boot camp long before earning a rating as a hospitalman or surgical assistant.

 

Hi Bonnie,

Welcome to the forum.

Did he also serve during the Cold War? If so, that would explain the Navy ribbon bars. If he is entitled to the National Defense Service Medal, there is a good chance that the other medals are his. The earliest date that this medal was issued was during the Korean War, meaning that he would have had to remain in the service for at least five years after the end of WWII to receive it. Alternatively, he could have re-enlisted (this would explain the Navy medals). I can't offer advice on how to verify this, but I'm sure one of the other members will.

Assuming that he has just the WWII medals, this is the correct order:

Army Good Conduct Medal, European-Africa-Middle East Campaign Medal (ribbon devices not shown), WWII Victory Medal

​

If he was entitled to the National Defense Service Medal, but not the other 'Cold War' Navy medals, it would be placed after the WWII Victory Medal.

EDIT: I've been forced to post this in two parts due to image restrictions. The second part is below.

 

Assuming he has all the medals, this is the correct order of precedence

Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, (Navy Unit Commendation*), Army Good Conduct Medal, European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal, WWII Victory Medal, National Defense Service Medal, Navy Pistol Marksman Medal, Navy Rifle Marksman Medal.

*It is more complicated for the Navy Unit Commendation. Army personnel could have received it, but they would wear it on the right side of their uniform (not on the leftside, where the rest of the ribbons are). Navy personnel would wear it with the other ribbons. For this case (as shown below), it would rank between the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal and the Army Good Conduct Medal.

​

​

​

 

Thanks for the information, everyone. Kodiakbeer, do you think he would have gotten Navy marksmanship ribbons in Army boot camp? He enlisted in Denver, CO, on Feb. 16, 1942; but I know he was somewhere in TX for his boot camp. I have a picture of him standing next to a train in uniform taken on Feb 20, 1942. He got sick in boot camp and didn't get to leave the country with his unit; instead he was attached to the 26th Gen Hospital unit at Ft. Sill.

He was discharged in 1945, so he wasn't in during the Cold War. Was the National Defense Ribbon given during WWII?

What does it mean on the dd214 when it says "5 overseas service bars"?

Bonnie

 

It is highly unlikely that he earned Navy ribbons in boot camp. Off the top of my head, the only possible - although very unlikely - reason I can think of is that he was originally in the Navy, and transferred to the Army while still in bootcamp.

No, as I said, the National Defense Service Medal was first issued during the Korean War. To my knowledge, the DD214 was issued at the time of his discharge. If he re-enlisted for later service during the Korean War era (many WWII veterans did, it is not uncommon), this would not be reflected in his 1945-dated DD214.

1 overseas service bar represents 6 months of service in a combat zone. In your case, this would represent a total of 30 to 35 months (or 2.5 to 3 years) stationed in the European Theater of Operations. These are worn on the sleeve of a dress uniform. Refer here for more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Service_Bar

 

Thanks, George Patton and LRusso216,

I know he never re-enlisted, and I remember his telling me that he traded patches with guys from other units (like some Australians he served with at some point). So I'm thinking he either traded for the navy ribbons or won them playing poker. I was told that on the long voyage home, lots of the guys gambled with their ribbons which sounds nuts to me, but what do I know?

He was in Europe twice and in North Africa for a total of 2 years and 7 months. So the explanation of the 5 service bars makes complete sense now. And now I get that they weren't ribbons, but worn on the sleeves; I didn't understand that part before.

My husband found a stamp on the front of my Dad's DD214 (I had focused on the back where all the boxes and detailed info are) and it says the "American Defense Service Medal (with foreign Service clasp) (and or World War II Victory Medal) issued at office of Zeller-Owens-Lindsay Post #6482, Holyoke, Colorado on Dec. 7, 1948. It has a signature of the leading agent. Holyoke, CO, was where he was born and where he returned after the war. So I guess that explains what I called the National Defense Medal. I don't know if perhaps he was in the Reserves at that point, and maybe that is why he was awarded that after the date of his discharge. I might be able to check the county records for Phillips County, which is where Holyoke is. But since I have the documentation, I'm going to include all 4 in the shadow box for my brother (who still lives in that same town where our Dad was born and raised).

Thanks again for all your help.
Bonnie

 

No. I assumed he was in the Navy since they supported the allied landings in and around the Med.

 

My husband found a stamp on the front of my Dad's DD214 (I had focused on the back where all the boxes and detailed info are) and it says the "American Defense Service Medal (with foreign Service clasp) (and or World War II Victory Medal) issued at office of Zeller-Owens-Lindsay Post #6482, Holyoke, Colorado on Dec. 7, 1948. It has a signature of the leading agent. Holyoke, CO, was where he was born and where he returned after the war. So I guess that explains what I called the National Defense Medal.


Nope, those are two different medals-- The ribbon you showed was for National Defense Service Medal, which was not in existence prior to the Korean War.

 

The American Defense Service Medal was awarded for service prior to the war being declared on Dec. 7 1941. (service between 39 and 41.

The "Foreign Service bar is Army--the Navy had "Fleet", or "Base" bar. Are you sure he wasn't "Prior Service" --You say he enlisted in Feb. of 1942, that wouldn't qualify him for this medal.

There was a funny time period just before war was declared where the government began drafting people for one year of service--this was to increase manpower in preperation for the war. After the war was declared the time was extended for the duration of the war. Without seeing his records I can't tell what happend, but he might have been one of thes guys.

 

Bonnie, I echo Lou's post about posting his seperation papers (form WD 53-55 in WWII)
I believe we could do much better explaining his service and what he is entitled to as far as medals and awards.