Squads, Sections, Teams and their sizes - U.S. U.K. (commonwealth) and Germans

Ravager · Jul 15, 2011

Like the topic says - Squads, Sections, Teams and their sizes - U.S. U.K. (commonwealth) and Germans. I already checked a thread about a similar subject but it was only about the U.S. troops.

T. A. Gardner said:

The basic rifle squad had 12 men. A squad leader, assistant leader, four grenadiers, a three man BAR team and, three riflemen. Equipment was typically 10 or 11 M1 Rifles (Garand), 1 1903 Springfield with scope (if so equipped), one BAR (later changed to two in late 1944), and 4 grenade launcher attachments.
Thompson SMGs were available for issue in the company HQ (there were officially 12) when the mission called for these. Some ncos and officers just carried one instead of their rifle by preference.
The two assistant BAR men and the BAR gunner each carried a special set of pouches for BAR magazines (officially 8 each) along with reduced rifle ammo. But, it was typical of squads in the field for everyone to carry two or three BAR magazines.
Although 4 grenadiers were provided more often squads kept only one or two rifle grenade launchers in service. Everyone would carry one or two rifle grenades forward. A common mod here was to clip a 60mm mortar bomb on the rifle grenade base for house busting in urban areas. The M9A1 antitank HEAT round was also frequently carried.
A bazooka or bazooka team could be attached from company HQ if needed.
Tactics were officially that the squad broke into three sections. The grenadiers and BAR team covered the assistant squad leader or squad leader and maneuver section (riflemen) in the advance. This didn't work in practice.
In practice most squads got 2 BARS and spilt into two teams under the squad leader and ASL. Each team had a BAR and rifle grenade launcher along with several riflemen. The teams would leapfrog covering each other in the advance. That was learned from experiance rather than theory.

Three squads plus a headquarters section made up the platoon.
Click to expand...

JCFalkenbergIII said:

"On paper the Rifle Squad was 7 Riflemen with Garands, Squad and Assistant Leader carried M1s as well, the Automatic Rifleman had a BAR and the Assistant Auto Rifleman had a M1, and the Ammo bearer had a M1.

On paper M1s were standard issue. But the NCOs usually had a SMG or carbine for the close range fights. There is no real standard for the TOE for the rifle squad. But Garands were definaltly the main weapon.

Personally i dont like the BAR. Which is why my mod is going towards the Airborne. Their loadout was very good. They refused to use the BAR because they needed more firepower and felt it lacked it.

1 Squad Leader(SSgt)-------M1 Garand Rifle, or Thompson SMG

1 Assistant Leader(Sgt)------M1 Garand Rifle, Carbine, or SMG

7 Riflemen ------------------M1 Garand Rifles and (2 max) Carbines

1 Machine Gunner-----------M1919A4/6, and a Carbine

1 Assistant Gunner----------M1 Carbine

1 Ammo bearer---------M1 Garand Rifle

That is the closest thing to a standard Airborne Rifle squad. Again they varied, but with the weapons show in that table. Platoon HQ had the 1st and 2nd Lieutenants carrying Carbines or SMGs, and the Platoon Sergeant and Guide had Rifles and Carbines. I read about the loadout of a squad for a certain mission, they had all SMGs and carbines with 2 Garands. So the loadout could be taylored for any mission. What i read was for a very close urban mission."

"Early in World War 2 the US Army had millions of 1903 Springfield. So a squad would have 10 1903 Springfield, 1 or 2 Thompson machine gun and or a BAR.
As production of the M-1 Garand picked up it replaced the 1903 in the US Army first and then the US Marines. A late war squad would look like this, 1 BAR, 1 1903 Springfield Rifle, and 10 M-1 Garand Rifles. Some squads might have 1 Thompson or a M-3 sub machine gun."
Click to expand...

And I also found this:
US Army Infantry Squad - 12 men: Squad leader (Thompson submachine gun 'SMG', M1 carbine, or M1 Garand rifle), 10 rifleman (M1 Garand rifle), 1 automatic rifleman (BAR). Organized as: Able Team (2 scouts); Baker Team (5 rifleman), Charlie Team (3 rifleman + BAR). One rifleman per platoon would generally carry a bazooka in addition to his personal weapon. There were 3 rifle squads per platoon in a rifle company.

US Airborne Infantry Squad - 12 men: same as infantry squad except that the BAR is replaced by a M1919A1 light machine gun (LMG). Same organization as the regular infantry squad. In practice the organization was flexible to the mission with one or more rifles often replaced by submachine guns and one man in the squad carrying a bazooka (generally one per platoon).

USMC Rifle Squad - 13 men (1944): The marine squad evolved throughout the war, adding additional firepower with each increment until settling on the 13-man configuration in mid 1944. Organized with a squad leader (Thompson SMG), and 3 x 4-man fire teams (3 rifles + 1 BAR each). In addition to the assigned personal weapons, the company commander could allocate 1 demolition pack and 1 flame thrower per squad as well as 1 bazooka per platoon, depending on mission requirements. These weapons would be carried by one of the squad's rifleman in addition to a personal weapon (often an M1 carbine to lighten the load). Since marines were often engaged in close-in fighting, they would frequently scrounge Thompson SMG's to replace rifles when available.

British & Commonwealth Infantry Squad (Section) - 10 men: Section leader (Sten SMG), Assistant Section Leader (rifle), 6 riflemen (rifle), Bren Number 1 (Bren LMG), Bren Number 2 (rifle). British and Commonwealth forces carried the .303 Enfield rifle (bolt action) throughout the war. The basic squad structure remained constant throught different battalion types (e.g., infantry, motorized, parachute), while the Para's were able to add additional Sten guns based on mission requirements. PIAT anti-tank weapons were allocated to squads from the company level as in the US forces.

Germany - 10 men(-): The basic German squad centered around an MG34 or MG42 general purpose machinegun (GPMG); personal weapons for the gunner and assistant gunner were pistols (generally), squad leader (MP40 SMG), 7 riflemen (Karabiner 98K 'Mauser' bolt action rifle). As the war progressed and manpower losses mounted the Germans were forced to reduce squad size to 9 men (dropping a rifleman). Panzergrenadier squads (halftrack mounted) had 8 dismounts with 2 GPMGs; Fallschirmjager (paratroop) squads were authorized 11 men, also with 2 GPMGs. In 1944 and 1945 many squads were below authorized strength even after replacements.

But I'm not sure which of these is true (maybe all??)... or if any of this is true or where the squads simply very flexible in reality and none to standard in size and weaponry. The only thing I can really be sure of are the sizes. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Oh and didn't some Airborne guys use the BAR?

Ah right I also found out something pretty interesting about the Commonwealth anti tank teams.

http://fow.polter.pl/Ernest-Smokey-Smith-c19403

It says he was running a 3 man anti tank group with 2 PIAT's, Bren and a Thompson. Where such groups standard/common?
I'm interested in the U.S. and German teams. Did they consist of 2 man groups with 1 Bazooka/Panzerscheck? More?

Slipdigit · Jul 15, 2011

Units are like people, they come in all sizes.

The various militaries had differing ideas about the size of every unit, battalion, regiment, brigade and division, based on many factors, to include warfare theory, equipment, purpose & national production capabilities, just to name a few. The terms used to describe a unit (such as squad or section) only gives others an idea of the approximate size of the unit and not a definitive number.

Also, unit sized changed often during the war, as new ideas or limitations became evident. Early in the war, a German infantry division was authorized between 15K and 17K men and with attached units, could be around 20K. By the end of the war, the number had dropped to 12K and usually the actual number was significantly less, due to severe manpower shortages.

It was not uncommon to see some Red Army divisions number 3-5K during certain periods of the war, which is normally what you would expect from a regiment or a small brigade.

There were also notable variations in upper level formations, especially with the Red Army and the Japanese.

It says he was running a 3 man anti tank group with 2 PIAT's, Bren and a Thompson. Where such groups standard/common?
I'm interested in the U.S. and German teams. Did they consist of 2 man groups with 1 Bazooka/Panzerscheck? More?
Click to expand...

Groups like that were tailored in the field to fit the needs at the time, given the men and weapons present.

I am writing a book about a man who was a mechanic in a US mechanized cavalry troop. Due to the small size of his unit (+/-150) and ever-present manpower shortages due to casualties, he spent a large portion of his time manning outposts, roadblocks and participating in ad hoc task forces. The number of men in each grouping often changed daily.

The need for flexibility became apparent in the US army early in the war and the TO&E of nearly all units were changed several times to allow for increased flexibility. Most support units, such as engineers and AAA, saw their unwieldy regiments broken up into battalions that could better utilize the manpower according to needs presented. That need for flexible unit size was also evident at the lowest levels of command and the formation of task forces sized to fit the needs of the objective was practiced in almost every army. The Germans were very good a it and their ability to form a kampfgruppe (Eng: battle or combat group) out of many disparate groups of men was legendary.

Ravager · Jul 16, 2011

So everything was actually very flexible?

yan taylor · Jul 18, 2011

Hi, I have done this earlier.

[FONT=&quot]British Rifle Platoon: [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Platoon Headquarters [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1st or 2nd Lieutenant (.455 Mk VI Revolver)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Platoon Sergeant (.303 Mk III Rifle, 9mm Mk II SMG in 1943)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Batman/Signaller: WS 18 (1940/42) or WS 38 (1943/45) Radio ((.303 Mk III Rifle)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Runner (.303 Mk III Rifle)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mortar Section [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lance-Corporal (.303 Mk III Rifle)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gunner (.303 Mk III Rifle, 9mm Mk II SMG in 1943)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Loader (.303 Mk III Rifle)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 x 2in Ordnance SBLM Mortar[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 x Rifle Section each: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rifle Squad[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 x Corporal (.303 Mk III Rifle, 9mm Mk II SMG in 1943)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 x Men (.303 Mk III Rifles)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]LMG Squad [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 x Lance-Corporal (.303 Mk III Rifle)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 x Gunner (.455 Mk VI Revolver)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 x Loader (.303 Mk III Rifle)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 x .303 Bren LMG

[/FONT]
German Rifle Platoons;

Platoon HQ
Platoon Commander
1 x Lieutenant (9mm MP40 SMG + 9mm P-38 pistol)
Platoon HQ Squad

1 x Sgt (9mm MP40 SMG)
1 x Sniper (7.92mm 98K rifle + 5x Scope)
2 x Runners (7.92mm 98K rifles)
1 x Medic (9mm P-38 pistol)
Light Mortar Squad
1 x Corporal (7.92mm 98K rifle)
1 x Gunner (9mm P-38 pistol)
1 x Loader (9mm P-38 pistol)
1 x 50mm leGrW 36 mortar

4 x Rifle Squads each:
1 x Corporal (9mm MP40 SMG)
1 x LMG Team
1 x Gunner (9mm P-38 pistol)
1 x Loader (9mm P-38 pistol)
1 x Ammo Man (7.92mm 98K rifle)
1 x Bi-pod mounted 7.92mm MG34 or MG42 LMG
1 x Lance Corporal (7.92mm 98K rifle)
1 x Rifle Grenade Launcher Man (G Gr Ger K98k Launcher)
4 x Men (7.92mm 98K rifles)

This a basic structure used more or less through out the war.
Regards Yan.

Ravager · Jul 18, 2011

I just managed to find something similar - World War Two Squad Makeup:

WWII Squads

Detailed with weapons as well as ranks. It looks really good.

Slipdigit · Jul 18, 2011

Ravager said:

So everything was actually very flexible?
Click to expand...

Yes, it was exceptionally rare for a formation to be at full strrength after contact with the enemy. Adjustments had to be made and tasks performed with the available manpower.

Each formation had to have a basis to start with and the staffing quotas were adherred to as often as possible. Details such as unit supply were based on the TO&E because the quartermasters had to have some number to work with when resupplying consumables to a unit in the field.

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Squads, Sections, Teams and their sizes - U.S. U.K. (commonwealth) and Germans

Ravager Member

Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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yan taylor Member

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Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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