First, let me make sure I have this right. I am thinking of a Mk IV (4)...which I think is the last tank Before they made a Panther or a Tiger.? OK...so That Tank...with its biggest available gun, and its thickest armor: 1. Was it a match for the Russian T-34.? 2. Was it a match for most anything that came ashore with The Allies in 1944.? I guess what I am getting at is...what would have happened if The Nazis had made a ton of the Mk IV in its most macho configuration.? Were they not pretty reliable and easy to make compered to a Panther and Tiger.? You guys know what I am asking..... Thank You
I'd suggest you look through some of these threads; http://www.ww2f.com/forum/101-armor-and-armored-fighting-vehicles/
Rotbart der Hauchdunne... Not a whole lot wrong with the Mk.IV really. Only Tank produced for the entire war. Excellent gun on later versions. Somewhat strained drivetrain/running gear as the armour got heavier (stripping tyres on front wheels, some reports of early suspension collapse, though bear in mind the fighting life of a WW2 AFV was pretty short regardless). Did Panther make sense in relation to Mk.IV? Yeah. MK.IV did very well up to '45, but had the war continued the heavier German machines and assorted other paper panzers would have had to move to the fore to deal with Centurion, Pershing etc. coming on stream. Having said that, the war didn't continue - Mk.IV did OK.
The Second World War, that is...but the MkIV stayed in service in a number of places - Bulgaria, Spain, Turkey... Reliable and longlived and competitive enough for Syria to buy up those being retired around the world in the second half of the 1960s, and muster two units of them (and a unit of StuGs) in 1967!
Aye, but often it was fighting WW2 contemporaries when it actually reached action in those postwar bashes, and didn't last too well when it met more modern gear or upgunned WW2 kit. Few Mk.IVs captured as late as '73 if memory serves. The Stugs were mostly static too. Bunkers really.
Perhaps the short answer to the original question is that yes, it was a match for the Allied tanks it met but it wasn't superior.
V-P, while all the caveats are true...its long life is all the more suprising because they were run into the ground for several decades - and not privy to the sort of rolling upgrades U.S. and Israeli Shermans got, for instance AND remembering that the later ausfrungs were "bargain basement" items as strategic alloying metals and parts ran out... It's suprising just how many WWII-era tanks lasted into the mid and sometimes late Cold War era....but they're usually tanks known for their ruggedness and simplicity as opposed to their being products of stopgap manufacture and "panic measure" corner/resource-cutting
Hard to take it away from German WW2 vehicles that they did understand the concept of the BFG. Those guns carrying on punching while other standards slipped is never that surprising is it. Which raises a thought. Wonder if the Syrians etc. Were still using German ammunition, and if 34s and 42s were still mounted. Got some pictures somewhere, but on my phone at the mo.
Slightly off topic T-34's were in action in the Balkans in the '90's. Knowing people who were on the recieving end, as UN infantry (the Nordic "Lucky" Battalion) a tank of any era is no laughing matter when you have no means to counter as it is laying down fire from more than a kilometer away. As such even WWII tanks can still fulfill roles; in fighting an insurgency, for instance. The question becomes more of effort of maintenance. I'd be suprised if there hasn't been an attempt to crank up a Mk IV in Syria. Surely there should've been one in a museum there somewhere? I've found references to SU-23-4 “Shilka”, T-54, T-55 and T-62 tanks, BMP-1, M-48 , a Centurion, an AMX VCI, an M.113, and a Renault R35, in pre-"disturbance" Syrian museums.
Yes - in Israel The majority...ahem..."changed ownership" in 1967, and the rest in 1973. The Israelis have preserved a good example....the rest were scrapped....or allowed to rust away in the revetments they were killed or found U/S in on the Golan Heights! Here's the "museum queen" - and note what's on the far side....! And on beyond, a Charioteer. The problem is the amount of pamering and maintenance they NEED to have received for decades; WII era tanks weren't exactly blessed with rustproofing treatments etc, One of the problems even in mueseum conditions - a lot of Bovington's displays are suffering this way...is that they rust solid from the inside outwards! The Yugoslavian T-34s were kept running and pampered for decades in service, ditto the small handful of Shermans and IIRC Hellcats they had! Another example would be the T34s and the Sherman that arrived in Angola in 1973-4 from Cuba were, in the case of the Sherman, pre-revolutionary items Casto's victorious revolutionaries had taken control of... This is another matter, however - it depends on what sort of outside assistance the said insurgents have received In Angola, for example "Col. Callan" (Costas georgiou) in a jeep with a dozen LAWS routed two MPLA columns and destroyed several T34s and the said Sherman. Modern hand-portable AT weapons, even non-guided throwaways, can make mincemeat of WWII tanks.
There's an m36 on the show circuit that served in the Balkans. Sports rubber additional armour made from conveyor belts. Sure there's still more than a handful of 34s in service. Quantity having a quality all of it's own But! We're perhaps wandering off somewhat aren't we. There's a thread or two on these post-war survivors already with some good pics. I'll maybe edit links in when back at the pooter.
I'm sure a MK IV was found in some farmers barn during the whole Balkans thing in Bosnia back in the 90's
An interesting thing I learned from Jentz: Prior to long 75s and 88s on tanks, the Panzer IV with the short 75 firing shaped charge shell was the best tank the Germans had to fight Russian heavy tanks with. According to Jentz, in the 11 Panzer Division, which racked up enough tank kills to impress Guderian, Pz IV firing HEAT shells scored more T-34s and KV-1 and 2 knock outs than any other German tank model; this division did not have Panzer IVs with the long-barreled 75s.
