Poland '39

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The Polish nation fought the Second World War with great tenacity and courage. Polish troops fought valiantly to defend their homeland against invasions by both Germany and the USSR in 1939. Afterward, Polish forces continued the fight, both as an underground army within Poland and as an expatriate army outside of Poland.

Polish infantry helped defend Norway in 1940. Polish airmen helped defend Britain during the Battle of Britain. The Polish underground recovered a lost German V-2 and smuggled some of its components to Britain. The Polish underground also waged a heroic attempt to liberate Warsaw. Polish infantry captured Monte Cassino. Polish tankers helped liberate Normandy. Polish paratroops helped liberate Holland.

As was commented on above, some Poles did turn their weapons against Poland's Jews in Jedwabne and other locations during the war, and in Kielce after the war. It should also be noted, however, that Poles led all of Europe in the dangerous work of protecting Jews during the Holocaust. It was also the exiled Polish government, Jan Karski in particular, that alerted the world to the Holocaust.

All that having been said, I must take issue with your statement that "If Britain and France had done as promised, the war WOULD have been only about Poland. There would be no fighting in France, in Russia, in North Africa etc. Only Poland and Germany would have been devastated."

Have you considered the consequences of Poland's decision to help Hitler dissect Czechoslovakia in September 1938, less than a year before Hitler invaded Poland?

According to the League of Nations Timeline for 1938 and 1939:

-March 12 - 13, 1938: Germany annexed Austria.

-March 14, 1938: Both France and the USSR declared their willingness to stand by their defense treaties with Czechoslovakia.

-March 16, 1938: Poland issued a series of demands to Lithuania. Polish - Lithuanian relations had been bitter since the Polish seizure of Vilnius. Lithuania agreed to all of Poland's demands to prevent the crisis from escalating.

-September 22-23, 1938: Hitler issued new territorial demands to Czechosloavkia.

-September 24, 1938: Czechoslovakia rejected German demands and mobilized its army.

-September 26, 1938: The Soviet government called for a strong stand in support of Czechoslovakia.

-September 29, 1938: Czechoslovakia was abandoned by its French and Little Entente allies. Only the Soviet government appeared prepared to assist the Czechoslovaks. Britain, France, Italy and Germany negotiated the partition of Czechoslovakia.

-September 29, 1938: Poland issued an ultimatum to Czechoslovakia over the disputed Teschen region, which the Czechoslovaks had seized during the Russo-Polish War of 1920.

-September 30, 1938: Czechoslovakia accepted the Munich Agreement and became a de facto German satellite.

-October 2, 1938: Polish troops occupied Teschen, gaining 400 square miles of Czechoslovak territory, a region inhabited by 100,000 Poles and 140,000 non-Poles.

-October 6, 1938: Czechoslovakia granted full autonomy to Slovakia.

-October 8, 1938: Czechoslovakia granted full autonomy to Ruthenia. Polish efforts to annex part of Ruthenia were thwarted by Germany.

-March 14, 1939: Germany occupied Bohemia and Moravia.

-March 16, 1939: Slovakia became a German protectorate.

-March 23, 1939: Germany annexed Memel from Lithuania and demanded Poland cede Danzig and Posen. Poland requested assistance from Britain and France.

-April 6, 1939: Britain and France signed a defense pact with Poland.

-April 28, 1939: Germany again demanded Poland cede Danzig and Posen.

-May 3, 1939: The USSR rejected British and French efforts to form a defensive alliance and later demanded the right to send Soviet troops into Poland in the event of a German invasion.

-August 20 - September 1, 1939: Danzig Polish Crisis.

-August 23, 1939: German-Soviet Non-Agression Pact announced. The Soviet decision to ally with Germany "was a terrible and bitter blow to the Western allies. From the Soviet perspective, the Polish government's refusal to allow Red Army troops onto Polish territory in the event of war alienated the Soviet regime." Germany massed troops in Slovakia and along the Posen border.

-August 24, 1939: Britain and Poland signed a mutual assistance pact. Poland began to mobilize its reserves.

-September 1, 1939: Germany invaded Poland from East Prussia, Silesia and Slovakia.

What might have been different if Poland had set aside the long-standing dispute over Teschen and supported Czechoslovakia instead of lining up alongside Germany for a slice of Czechoslovakia? Perhaps German troops might not have invaded Poland from Slovakia in 1939 if Poland had stood with Czechoslovakia in 1938.

The Czechoslovaks might have been willing to fight Germany in 1938, because instead of standing alone against Germany, they would have had an ally in Poland. The Soviets, who were allied with Czechoslovakia but did not then share a land border with Czechoslovakia, had already agreed to honor their defense treaty with Czechoslovakia. With Poland as a land bridge linking Czechoslovakia and the USSR, the Soviet willingness to fight Germany in 1938 might have brought the British and French into a 1938 war.

As unpalatable as an alliance with the Soviet Union might have seemed to Poland in 1938, democratic Czechoslovakia already had an alliance with the Soviets in 1938, and the British and French sought an alliance with the Soviets in 1939. Millions of Poles were killed during World War II. Most of those millions of Poles were killed by Germany. Was that really the preferable alternative to voluntarily allowing Soviet troops into Poland?

Britain and France might not have been any more inclined to move out from behind the Maginot Line in 1938 than they were in 1939, but a 1938 war might have been five nations against Germany with Czechoslovakia, Poland and the USSR forming a defensive bloc.

Five nations or more. Perhaps Lithuania would have been better able to resist German demands regarding Memel in 1939 if Poland had not imposed demands of its own on Lithuania in 1938 in the wake of the German annexation of Austria. And perhaps the Little Entente would not have collapsed as a consequence of the Munich Agrement.

Poland sacrificed the potential strength of a Polish - Czechoslovak - Soviet alliance in 1938 (and beyond) for eleven months of control over the 400 square mile Teschen region and an unsuccessful shot at a piece of Ruthenia.

One can certainly debate whether Britain and France might have been able to do more to help Poland in 1939. One should also bear in mind the decisions Poland made in 1938 and how those decisions helped shape the events of 1939.

[ 27. February 2005, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Deep Web Diver ]

 

Great post, DWD! Thanks for sharing the chronology and thoughts.

 

I'll tell you guys that I really wish that Poland and Czechoslovakia could have formed an alliance.
I'm sure that if Czechoslovakia didn't take that chunk of land when Poland's back was to the wall in 1920, there would have been an alliance.
Pilsudski tried to get Lithuania on board, and basically ressurect the old commonwealth, but he only partly succeeded.

I also wish that Pilsudski lived longer, and kept the army in shape. Unfortunately, as usual politicians started looking after their own interests, and after Pilsudski's death, almost completely neglected the army.
I always wonder how things would have turned out if he was in command in WWII.

One thing though, the USSR never intended any defensive block. They just wanted to incorporate more land. The three baltic countries are good examples of this. Russia has hated Poland right from its inception. The stunning, humiliating defeat for the soviets in 1920 didn't help either. To add to that, stalin was one of the commanders of the invading red army, and was very embarassed by the defeat. His revenge on Poland was a personal one.

Poland's geography is its own worst enemy. From before the inception of Poland as a state, all sorts of peoples invaded the area. Then Poland as a country was attacked by nearly every imaginable force in the region, from teutonic knights to turks to Swedes.
During the time of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the attacks were no less frequent, but the country was powerful, and not only crushed all invaders, but expanded too. The numbers in battle were usually something like 3000 Polish and Lithuanian troops against 10,0000 enemy toops. The most credit for these kinds of victories go to the Husaria , the medieval equivalent of hitler's panzer corps in WWII. To this day, many military units in Poland have Husaria wings on their badges.

Back to the Czechoslovak issue, I think that an alliance would have resulted in not only more protection, but also new technology.
I was looking through several weapons and systems from Poland and Czechoslovakia a while ago. Almost every weapon developed by one of the two countries independently was good, and developed in a reasonable amount of time. The few weapons developed co-operatively were even better.

 

Clearly an Anglo-French alliance against the Third Reich and than additionally the Soviets would not be able to defeat both let alone one opponent. The Germans being far more prepared to fight a war could easily replenish their forces in the West defending against a possible invasion from France. Now lets say the Britons and the French declare war not only on Germany, but the Soviets also. There is little possibility that an Anglo-French alliance could even think of conquering more than a few baltic ports. The Anglo-French alliance obviously would have failed if it kept up to its agreement with the Poles, and clearly there is little to no possibility that the British and the French would declare war on the Soviets in addition to already fighting the Germans.

[ 29. March 2005, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: us11thairborne ]

 

In 1944 the Siegried line was in one month barely got in some shape to fight the allied troops, and some 1/5th of the bunkers are mentioned to be manned . I do think that in 1939-40 there were more men and better trained at the West wall ( Siegfried line ) than in 1944, so I guess any offensive in 1939-40 would have been quite useless against the West wall ??!

 

Well the reason the Siegfried Line was not fully operational in 1944 was because many of the resources were going to the Eastern Front, however in 1939-1940 Hitler could of easily replenished his forces to defend against an attack from France, unlike 1944 where much of his time, and resources were needed for the East.

 

As well the West Wall had not been cared for since 1940, and also the newer weapons would not fit the bunkers. In 1939 the 37 mm AT gun, now the 88 mm... etc etc. Also the new allied weapons could pass through stonger walls so better and stronger bunkers were necessary.

 

As stated above, Kai. There were 42 infantry divisions under Von Leeb guarding the border by mid-September 1939.

70% of such divisions were regular fully-equipped divisions, with training standards of 1939, not 1944. That was a very powerful fighting force.

 

I also wish that Pilsudski lived longer, and kept the army in shape. Unfortunately, as usual politicians started looking after their own interests, and after Pilsudski's death, almost completely neglected the army.
I always wonder how things would have turned out if he was in command in WWII.


------I agree, he would have made a difference if for no other reason than to have mobilised sooner.


One thing though, the USSR never intended any defensive block. They just wanted to incorporate more land. The three baltic countries are good examples of this. Russia has hated Poland right from its inception. The stunning, humiliating defeat for the soviets in 1920 didn't help either. To add to that, stalin was one of the commanders of the invading red army, and was very embarassed by the defeat. His revenge on Poland was a personal one.

-------Just another reason why any dealings with the USSR would have been foolish, their kind offer to have Soviet troops posted in Poland is laughable.


Poland's geography is its own worst enemy. From before the inception of Poland as a state, all sorts of peoples invaded the area. Then Poland as a country was attacked by nearly every imaginable force in the region, from teutonic knights to turks to Swedes.


----------Your best point, with German forces in East Prussia and Slovocia they were easily closer to Warsaw than the far flung Polish army. Once the USSR entered though it was all over. I can understand your feelings of betrayl though my friend, My Uncle Steve was captured in Pozan and spent 5 years in Auchwitz and Malzadec. The kicker is that others in my family, from Essen might have actually captured him!


The Blue Max

 

Back to the what if.......This would have forced the Soviets and Nazis into an uneasy alliance. I think Hitler would have stood aside and let the Western allies and Soviets kill each other off. Or,more likely, Stalin would have stood aside and watch the allies kill off the Nazis. If Germany won, then Stalin would move into the balkans and scandanavia. Either way, more war.