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Always Blaming it on the US?

Discussion in 'Military History' started by Spaniard, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Boy did I get a Regimental Verbal flagging for Blaming Britain & Canada as being Invaders. For the past ten +++++ years I've been arguing vigorously that the US in 1861-62 had no intention of invading Canada as believed by many, Let me Explain.

    Go to this link The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    With the threat of an American invasion looming, in 1862 volunteer Militia companies were hastily formed in Canada. According to the book “The 5th Regiment Royal Scots of Canada Highlanders” A regimental history written by Captain Ernest J. Chambers in 1904, on page 33 paragraph 3.

    Towards the end of November 1861, word reached Canada of the Trent outrage. The British mail steamer, "Trent" had been stopped on the high seas by the U.S.S. "San Jaeinto," boarded by a party of armed marines, and Messrs. Mason and Sliddell, the Confederate commissioners, .seized, in spite of the protests of the "Trent's" captain, and taken on board the "San Jaeinto." At the news of this wanton outrage upon the British flag, a wave of indignation swept over the British Empire, and Britons everywhere demanded that the Confederate commissioners be restored to the protection of the British flag and full reparation made.

    Britain dispatched a large force of regular troops with ample supplies of munitions of war to Canada, and the Canadians, to a man, set themselves to the task of preparing for the contest, which appeared not merely probable but inevitable. How the United States Government eventually surrendered the two commissioners and made amends for the uncalled for action of Captain Wilkes, is well known to every reader of history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_in_the_American_Civil_War

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Affair

    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1861/12/11.htm

    From the research I've done concerning the TRENT Affair. Britain & Canada were ready to go to War and attack the US over the "Trent" Even Britain had sent Troops, supplies and munitions to Canada in case, the US did not amended the restoration of the men taken from the Trent, and also submit ample apologies for the insult to the British flag. If not, then Britain would off declared War on the US.

    Therefore my Question is was there an Invassion looming by the US?
     
  2. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    I think that the yankees had their hands full down south in 1862 to start another war in their back yard. From what I've read, preparations were made to face a possible invasion from Canada as a result of the Trent Affair.
     
  3. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    You need to completely read the links you cite as sources:

    The only invasion I see "looming" was that of the Brits through Canada to New York. The "American Invasion" was not Union troops invading Canada; it was Britsh Troops invading New York.

    Try and hit the "think" button before you hit the "submit" button
     
  4. 1ST Chutes

    1ST Chutes Member

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    Well between 1866 and 1870 the Fenian Brotherhood did "invade" /raid Canada from the US but it was not sanctioned by the US Goverment and worked out rather poorly for the Fenian's.
     
  5. Volga Boatman

    Volga Boatman Dishonorably Discharged

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    I think it is very clear that neither the Union, nor England, were prepared or willing to go to war over the "Trent" affair. Lincoln's attitude was very much as he expressed it, "One war at a time, Mr Seward." The diplomatic row was fanned more by the Southern Press than any other factor, hungry as they were for foriegn intervention.
    The Confederate dream of England/France making the War Between the States a personal affair of their own was, and remained just that...a pipe dream. One might well call it the ultimate Confederate fantasy scenario. Many Confederate politicians saw their war as similar in concept to the War for Independence in the 1770's, a war that was largely brought to a conclusion through foreign intervention.
    In fact, hopes for foreign help were really not seen to die the death they truly deserved until mid-1863, when Lee moved into Pennsylvania with just this scenario in mind as the deciding element after a possible successful campaign. The truth was that the Lincoln administration had already squashed any hope of this, and it was only dreaming Confederates who kept the idea alive, chiefly in their own minds.

    Gettysburg finally buried these assumptions of the South. It was always a lot of empty sabre rattling to begin with, and it petered out forever as Picket's divisions came limping back to the Emmitsburg road....
     
  6. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    I believe that the Emancipation Proclamation issued in January 1863 for the most part ended any possibility of intervention by England and France. At that point, the war was changed from a war to preserve the union to a war to free the slaves up north, and a "rich man's war and a poor man's fight" down south. Both England and France had ended slavery already, and weren't going to war over the continuance and expansion of slavery in the US or anywhere.
     
  7. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Great discussion, guys! :cool:
    Can I be pedantic for a mo' and remind you that it was Britain and not England?:p
     
  8. Kevin Kenneally

    Kevin Kenneally Member

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    Try NOT to blame the Irish either.

    We were doing a fine "Invasion" of our own at the time.

    Hell, we even helped to get rid of them nasty "Native-'merikans" as well.... :p
     
  9. alieneyes

    alieneyes Member

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    Seeing as we're all being pedantic may I point out that Canada did not even exist as a nation in 1861-2?

    It would be another 5-6 years before Confederation in 1867.
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    Much as I like pedantry, I believe England was legitimately, and, dare I say it, officially, used as a synonym for the entire Union up until the early 20th century.




    But yeah, on the whole, I blame the septics...



    ...what was the question again?
     
  11. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    That big ice cube on the other side of the St. Lawrence, then. :D
     
  12. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Great Scots you must be Joking, Upper Canada, Lower Canada Hello 911.

    The Name dates back to Cartier Or as the indigenous called Kan-ata AKA "The Village". Please read

    Canada, a name derived from the Huron-Iroquoian kanata, meaning a village or settlement. On 13 August 1535, as Jacques CARTIER was nearing Île d'Anticosti, 2 Indian youths he was bringing back from France informed him that the route to Canada ("chemin de Canada") lay to the south of the island. By Canada they meant the village of Stadacona, on the future site of QUÉBEC CITY. Cartier used the word in that sense, but also referred to "the province of Canada," meaning the area subject to DONNACONA, chief at Stadacona. The name was soon applied to a much larger region. The "Harleian" world map of c 1547, the first to show the discoveries made on Cartier's second voyage, applied it to an area north of the gulf and river St Lawrence, and by 1550 maps were also placing the name south of the river.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Cartier referred to the St Lawrence as the "rivière de Canada" and the name was in general use until the end of the century. But on 10 August 1535 he had given the name St-Laurent to a bay north of Ile d'Anticosti, and the name spread gradually to the gulf and river. In 1603, on his first voyage to Canada, CHAMPLAIN spoke of the river of Canada, but by 1613 referred to St Laurens for the gulf. The name Canada was used loosely, even in official correspondence, as a synonym for NEW FRANCE, which included all French possessions; but it was always understood, as Father Pierre Biard pointed out in the Jesuit Relation for 1616, that "Canada ... is not, properly speaking, all this extent of country which they now call New France; but it is only that part, which extends along the banks of the great River Canada, and the Gulf of St. Lawrence." In 1664 François Du Creux, in his work Historia Canadensis, drew the same distinction.

    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0001216



    Mr POINTER the Big Ice Cube on the other side of the St. Lawrence, sounds Just about right to me, Lmaooooo:D
     
  13. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Well, that "England Stands Alone" thing in 1940 must have really rankled a lot of feathers then, eh?
     
  14. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    No idea.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    I've come over all peculiar.
    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKaJ4b0XYmI&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMP9GQapuOc&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSbyytomT4[/YOUTUBE]

    I'll get my coat...
     
  16. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    aren't we getting off topic ?
     
  17. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    It did, and still does.
     
    A-58 likes this.
  18. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Yes we are Skipper, and now I'll get things back on track for you. I don't really thing that the Yankees were really planning to invade Canada over the Trent Affair. Maybe there was some saber rattling going on by some of the Radical Republicans in Lincoln's cabinet, but cooler heads prevailed. As mentioned earlier, the Yankees were quite busy enough down South, and that war was plenty enough to go around as it was. I think that the British sent troops to Canada "just in case" the Yankees moved north, and the Yankees positioned some troops near the border "just in case" the Brits moved south. Much ado about nothing it seems to be now, but at the time the incident had bad news wrote all over it.
     
  19. Kevin Kenneally

    Kevin Kenneally Member

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    I have read some articles that the Canadians had plans to invade the US during WWII if the US did not enter on the side of the Allies. They were going to split the country in two at the Mississippi River, not allowing the grain and cattle to get to the Eastern US.

    They also were going to strike across the northern plains making Denver the "defacto" capital of the new Canadian lands. (Had a friend I worked with at the end of the 1990s from Canada that showed me thesea articles from the Kingston Military Academy, circa 1978; the year he graduated from there.)

    On the same topic, if the British were to succumb to the Germans and Canada followed Britian as per the terms of the armistice, the US had occupation plans to secure the Eastern Canadian ports, block the St Lawrence Seaway and invade the plains of Canada to keep the Germans from having the Canadians provide the Europeans Grain and cattle. (These articles were posted to a History magazine I read during the summer of 2001. Just wish I could have printed them out; very good readings.)
     
  20. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    OK Me Thinks Skipper is Right ICCI!

    Ok the point of the Thread is to establish in 1861-62 was there ever a US invasion Looming?

    Or Was Britain ready to invade the US concerning the Trent Affair?

    We must remember that Britain dispatched a large force of regular troops with ample supplies of munitions of war to Canada, and the Canadians, to a man, set themselves to the task of preparing for the contest, which appeared not merely probable but inevitable.

    That's all I'm asking Two questions and I'm Sure after you read the Trent Affair many will be able to answer both Questions.

    I thank you for your Time and your Posts there appreciated.
     

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