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Best Sub-machine gun or machine pistols of WWII?

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by mp38, Jun 18, 2002.

  1. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    Not a pisttol caliber firearm. Nice rifle tthough.
     
  2. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I like naturally the Finnish "Suomi" machine gun

    [​IMG]

    the bullet was a 9 mm sized, and shooting speed 300-400 m/s. So shooting short burts the gun did not kick back much at all. 70 bullets in the drum.cartridge. Also straight cartridge "the coffin" version available.

    [​IMG]




















     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
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  3. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    Thanks for the tip... :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
  4. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    Do you mean "snail drum" as in 08 Trommelmag Lader? If so, I hope you love the MP18. No Soviet firearms used a "snail drum". You may be confusing this with a drum magazine. Many firearms including Thompsons, PPsH, kp/31 etc used drum magazines. "Snail drum" is a very specific term.
     
  5. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I liked this video so here it goes....

     
  6. DarkLord

    DarkLord Active Member

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    "Best" is just too hard to quantify...

    Early war
    If you're just going by quality of manufacture and reliability; Czech ZK 383
    If you're factoring in the impact that it made on its military; STEN
    If you're talking versatility; STEN
    If you're talking cost: STEN
    If you're talking terminal effectiveness; Thompson M1A1
    If you want terminal effectiveness on the cheap; M3 Grease Gun
    Easiest to shoot; Beretta M38

    Late in the war, the UK and the Russians just ran away with it. The Patchett which became the Sterling Mk4 is easily the best SMG to have seen combat, but it was in very tiny numbers.
    The PPSH-43 is fantastic. Cheap and easy to manufacture, exceptionally reliable, easy to maintain, and once they got rid of the drum, easy to feed.
     
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  7. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    The KP m/44 (Finnish: Konepistooli malli 1944, lit. 'Submachine gun, model 1944'), nicknamed "Peltiheikki" or "Pelti-kp", which could be translated as "sheet-metal Heikki" and "sheet-metal machine pistol"/"sheet-metal submachine gun" respectively, was a Finnish 9mm copy and modification of the Soviet mass-produced 7.62 mm submachine gun PPS-43.

    KP m/44 submachine gun

    It is unlikely the m/44 actually saw action during WWII but the gun was used by the Finnish Defence Forces as a training weapon until the 1970s. The Finnish Border Guard and United Nations troops also used the weapon, the latter particularly during the Suez Crisis.[2] Willi Daugs, Tikkakoski Oy's principal shareholder, took the blueprints with him to Spain after World War II. The gun was produced there at the Oviedo arms factory, who re-designated it DUX-53. In 1953, the West German border guards (Bundesgrenzschutz) adopted the Spanish-made DUX-53 and DUX-59 submachine guns, copied from the PPS-43 by way of the Finnish M/44.

    [​IMG]

     
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  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Just that occasional jamming was a problem. It seems holding the gun by the magazine could cause this. For instance I recall the Heydrich killers when facing the man in his car the Sten jammed??



    Heydrich's green, open-topped Mercedes 320 Cabriolet B reached the curve two minutes later. As it slowed down and rounded the corner, Gabčík, who concealed his Sten submachine gun under a raincoat, dropped the raincoat and raised the gun, and, at close range, tried to shoot Heydrich, but the gun jammed.

    Operation Anthropoid

    Perhaps it is the price to pay for all mg´s that were ordered to be made fast and cheap and lots of them?
     
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  9. DarkLord

    DarkLord Active Member

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    The STEN was no less reliable than an MP40. I have owned one, manufactured dozens, and have shot several others extensively; they're good SMG's. While they may look like hell, they don't shoot or work like it. They are generally quite reliable.

    To get it to malfunction, you have to REALLY pull on that magazine…but do that to ANY SMG and you’ll get pretty much the same results.


    The double column/single feed magazine was the somewhat less than optimal. The STEN magazine requires more maintenance than a double column/double feed magazine, but again; the same holds true for the MP40, Grease Gun, etc…It’s a weakness of all of them. Neglect to clean and lubricate a double column/single feed magazine and you'll pay the price, regardless of the design.


    Regarding operation Anthropoid, the truth is; we’ll never know why that STEN malfunctioned at that particular time.
     
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  10. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    The Owen...
     
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  11. DarkLord

    DarkLord Active Member

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    The Owen was an improvement over the STEN but I think the most amazing thing about the OWEN is...They managed to make the STEN even uglier!!

    But it REALLY was a fantastic SMG.
     
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