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Courage

Discussion in 'Eastern Europe' started by Mito, Nov 14, 2000.

  1. Mito

    Mito Member

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    The soldiers that fought in the Eastern front had guts. Many faced a certain and horrible death.

    I greet and honour their memory.
     
  2. Ron

    Ron Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mito:
    The soldiers that fought in the Eastern front had guts. Many faced a certain and horrible death.

    I greet and honour their memory.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They were brave, both sides. I'm reading a book called The Forgotten Soldier which was written by a german soldier who was in the Russian front from 42 to his capture by the british in 45.
    From what he says...even though i hated what germany fought for...i still honor them...as well as the Russians who suffered dearly.
    He goes into great detail about combat and what he saw. It sounded absolutly horrible. The hardships they endured was amazing! From watching barges with about a hundered men blown to bits from air attacks while crossing the Dnieper River to the vaporizing of 11 men in a shell hole abliterated by a shell hit...their pieces and blood blown onto him.
    I think the moral of HIS story was that...even though they were defeated and what they fought for was wrong...they still endured grat sacrifice. and that their dead should not be ignored...for they had girlfriends,lovers,wives, moms and dads,babies,and everythng to live for also.
    I don't like what they fought for...but i respect their loss.
     
  3. COMET

    COMET Member

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    The other day I was reading a french book about Leningrad's Batlle and specially, the spanish Blue division (250 infanterie Division)fighting on the south of Leningrad.

    A lot of men of the Blue Division found death because their brain were completly freeze. They must used a woll cap under the helmet to avoid it. But often this kind of cap were unavailable!!!

    Yes, they were brave, but a lot of them didn't choose to be there.


    Comet
     
  4. Ron

    Ron Member

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    well i tend to doubt that they died from "frozen brain" I don't think that is possible. I tend to think that because they wern't properly dressed they died of exposure (Hypothermia) Once they died...maybe then is when their brain froze. Even still, that is rough! Also i agree...i'm sure several were fighting there because they were forced to...not because they belived in what Germany was doing.
     
  5. Peppy

    Peppy Idi Admin

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    No, frozen brain killed many soldiers during the war. Estimates range from 3 to 5 million russians fell to "General Ice Head". And improper headgear led to the fall of Tobruk to Rommel, a condition known as "Oven Skull".

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    Who's peppy? I am!!
     
  6. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I agree with you guys about the respect issue. But I honestly don't think any soldier was fighting for anything other than their country. The "soldiers" that ran the concentration camps were obviously not fighting, but the men on the front lines, (from any country), I have a massive amount of respect for.
     
  7. AndyW

    AndyW Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Otto:
    The "soldiers" that ran the concentration camps were obviously not fighting, but the men on the front lines, (from any country), I have a massive amount of respect for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Unfortunately there wasn't really a sharp frontier: Whermacht front-line troops were ordered to shoot civilians and POW's and burn villages, while many SS camp guards volunteered to the front.
     
  8. COMET

    COMET Member

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    Well, when I said "Brain Frozed" It was my way to translate the french sentence of the book I am reading. They are talking a bout "liquide cephalo-rachidien gelé" which is the liquid in the brain and not exactly the brain.

    I have a lot of respect for all these men, and for all the men died during the WWI and WWII, but a lot of them were fighting for saving they life.

    I remember a story from a veteran of the 2nd french armoured division. He was on Alsace during the winter 44. He was on a scout mission and suddenly he met a german soldier.
    He told me that he shot the german and killed him, but not because he wanted to kill him (he was very young)but to avoid to be killed.

    This man were Jean Vigneau, a french officer. And I had the supreme honour to meet him and become a very close friend. I have a lot of WWII photos from him.
     
  9. Peppy

    Peppy Idi Admin

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    I'm just kidding with you Comet. No worries.
     
  10. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    Of course! Every soldier was fighting so that he wouldnt die. His country stuck him into the middle of the war so he has to kill or be killed. It just happened that the people who you had to kill or be killed by advanced or retreated across Europe, so you had to follow or retreat otherwise be killed in a counterattack. (If that didnt confuse you) Many soldiers who got to the front line decided they didnt want to be there no more but had to do the hole kill or be killed thingy.

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    Mussolini

    "Blood alone moves the Wheels of history." Benito Mussolini.

    "What the proletariat needs is a bath of blood." Benito Mussolini, speech in Milan, July 22, 1919

    "Liberty is a duty, not a right"
    --Benito Mussolini
     
  11. Ron

    Ron Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by COMET:
    Well, when I said "Brain Frozed" It was my way to translate the french sentence of the book I am reading. They are talking a bout "liquide cephalo-rachidien gelé" which is the liquid in the brain and not exactly the brain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    DAMN... i never realized that was possible. Talk about adding to the horrors of war. Sounds like some sort of torture method YEESH
     
  12. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Both sides had excellent soldiers indeed. Take a look at the book: "The Last Knight of Flanders" by Allen Brandt. It is about Knights Cross Recipient: Remy Schrijnen of the Waffen SS Sturmbrigade Langemarck. I think what both sides had to endure was amazing to say the least. Take a look and see what Remy endured. I recently spent some time with him and his wife in Germany. Even though he is now 80, he is still one tough individual. Awards include: EK1&2, Gold wound badge, Infantry assault badge, VNV badge, Knights Cross of the Iron Cross, just to name a few.
     
  13. Panzerknacker

    Panzerknacker New Member

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    OVEN SKULL-Was that caused by wearing Stalhelm in the hot African desert?
     
  14. Smoke286

    Smoke286 Member

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    Every army has heros and cowards, good soldiers and bad, but mostly just a group of people trying to survive in dangerous conditions
     
  15. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    The was in the East was of course, the bloodiest and most despicable in History because it was a fight for the survival of to totally opossite nations. One couldn't expand and get what it wanted with the other in the middle. Too much power in too little land. That is very dangerous.

    And in a war for survival there are no place for mercy or care about the enemy. We have to add to this that the men fighting came from the two bloodiest regimes of all times. If they didn't care about their own citizens, they were not going to care about enemies.

    All those things combined provoked mass bombardments and starvation siegs that called millions of people killed. They provoked bloody atrocities by both sides in the Partisan warfare and they provoked even more deaths and horror in the close combat warfare. By example, Red Army soldiers trapped in a cave in Sebastopol by days with no food, water or medical attention, surrounded of civilians living the same. They all preffered to blow themselves than being captured by th enemy. German soldiers fighting in filthy water in a dark tunnel with their hands, hiting, punching and biting the enemy or burning them in Stalingrad's dwellers... Einsatzgruppen killing people by the thousands and sending them to industrialised extermination sites. Thousand of starving German soldiers who starved and froze to death in Siberia. Soviet soldiers burning alive and raping 11-year-old Hitlerjugends defending Berlin and raping dozens of times the Berliner mothers and sisters...
     
  16. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Time to check some Russian heroes I think.Here´s two interesting persons and a netsite for more if you´re interested:

    "The best known Soviet fighter ace during the first period of the war, was young Boris Safonov, who flew with 72 SAP (Composite Aviation Regiment) of the Air Force of the Soviet Northern Fleet (VVS SF) in the Murmansk area in the far North.

    Before his death on May 30, 1942, Safonov scored 17 victories, of which at least eight can be verified by Luftwaffe loss records. During his last combat, he was credited with another three kills--bringing his total to 20 (according to his logbook.

    What makes Safonov's achievement remarkable is that 14 of these victories were claimed during the three first months of the war, while Safonov was flying an I-16 Ishak fighter, an airplane far inferior to the German Messerschmitt 109s.

    Boris Safonov went missing in action after pursuing a group of II./KG 30 Ju 88s over the convoy PQ 16 off Murmansk on May 30, 1942. On June 14, 1942, Safonov posthumously became the first Soviet citizen to be twice appointed Hero of the Soviet Union during the war against Germany."

    http://soviet-awards.addr.com/digest/safonov/safonov1.htm
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    The greatest female sniper of all time was Lyudmila Mikhailovna Pavlichenko, an Ukrainian. She was born on 12 July 1916 in the small village of Belaya Tserkov.
    When the Germans attacked the Soviet Union on 22 June 1941, Lyudmila Pavlichenko was a 24-year-old student.Like many of her classmates, she rushed to join the military to fight against the Germans.
    In August 1941, Private Pavlichenko scored her first two kills near the village of Belyayevka when her unit was ordered to defend a strategic hill. She worked with a spotter. Her weapon was a Model 1891/30 Sniper Rifle fitted with a P.E. 4-power scope.Pavlichenko fought for over two and a half months near Odessa and recorded 187 kills.

    Pavlichenko was wounded by a mortar blast in June 1942. At this time, her score stood at 309. Pavlichenko never returned to the fighting.On 25 October 1943, she became a Hero of the Soviet Union.

    Lyudmila Pavlichenko died on 10 October 1974 at age 58 and is buried at the Novodevichiye Cemetery in Moscow.

    http://soviet-awards.addr.com/digest/pavlichenko/pavlichenko1.htm

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    More on Russian Heroes

    http://soviet-awards.addr.com/digest.htm
     
  17. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Really incredible, Kai! I loved the site a lot! ;)
     

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