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Help with 1st Armored Division

Discussion in 'North Africa: Operation Torch to Surrender of Tuni' started by Aitor, Jun 29, 2023.

  1. Aitor

    Aitor Guest

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    Hello, I am interested in the 1st Armored Division history on North Africa. As far as I know, when Americans lose the battle of SIDI BOU ZID 14 to 17 february 1943, the 1st Armored Division suffered many lost of material and men and decided to go to Morocco to reorganice and receive new material. Questions:

    1) is that correct?
    2) which units of the 1st Armored Division went to Morocco to reorganise ?
    3) when did they arrive?
    4) did they reorganise in Casablanca?

    Thanks very much
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2023
  2. Temujin

    Temujin Active Member

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  3. Aitor

    Aitor Guest

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    Thanks, it is a big list of books, i have some of them. But usually they do not answer my question 2,3,4.

    the studies should stop after the disaster. I need the info of what happens with the 1st Armored Division once they arrived to Morocco, specially these questions:

    2) which units of the 1st Armored Division went to Morocco to reorganise ?
    3) when did they arrive?
    4) did they reorganise in Casablanca or where?


    Thanks very much
     
  4. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    A good reference book to have on hand is Shelby Stanton’s WW2 Order of Battle. It’s chock full of information about US Army units and you’ll be able to find a lot of what you’re looking for there. It’s available on Amazon and probably on eBay as well.
     
  5. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    I think you have gotten some questionable information. 1st AD continued fighting in Tunisia to the end of the campaign.

    Welcome to the forum!
     
  6. Aitor

    Aitor Guest

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    Yes I told it wrong, they went to Morocco at the end of the campaign to reorganise, not after the battle of SIDI BOU ZID 14 to 17 february 1943 where they suffered many lost of men and material.

    The relevant fact is that they went to Morocco before going to Italy.
    I have read it in several places, also in Wikipedia….

    1st Armored Division (United States) - Wikipedia


    “the Axis forces in Tunisia surrendered between 9 and 13 May 1943. The division was reorganized in French Morocco and began arriving in Naples, Italy on 28 October 1943.”

    So, my questions are the same:

    -which units of the 1st Armored Division went to Morocco to reorganise ?
    -when did they arrive?
    - did they reorganise in Casablanca or where?

    thanks very much.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2023
  7. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    The 1st Armored Division reorganized and refitted in Morocco at the end of the North African Campaign. It began to withdraw on 3 May 1943 under its new commander Brigadier General Earnest Harmon. The Army Almanac: A Book of Facts Concerning the Army of the United States, U.S. Government Printing Office, 1950, pp. 510-592
     
  8. Aitor

    Aitor Guest

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    Thanks, any idea of the 1st Armored Division units that arrived to Morocco?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2023
  9. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    All of them. The division refitted there in preparation for landing in AVALANCHE since it was anticipated 2d Armored would have to refit after HUSKY. IIRC at the time 1st Armored was assigned to Fifth Army and 2d Armored was assigned to Seventh Army.
     
  10. Aitor

    Aitor Guest

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    Thanks very much in 1940 the division I think was like this:


    1940
    The first order of battle for the 1st Armored Division was:
    • HHC, 1st Armored Brigade
    • 1st Armored Regiment (Light)
    • 13th Armored Regiment (Light)
    • 69th Armored Regiment (Medium)
    • 81st Armored Reconnaissance Squadron
    • 6th Armored Infantry Regiment
    • 68th Armored Field Artillery Regiment
    • 27th Field Artillery Battalion (Armored)
    • 16th Engineer Battalion (Armored)
    • 13th Quartermaster Battalion (Armored)
    • 19th Ordnance Battalion (Armored)
    • 47th Medical Battalion (Armored)
    • 141st Signal Company (Armored)


    On 15th september 1943 it reorganise like this:

    • Headquarters Company
    • Combat Command A
    • Combat Command B
    • Reserve Command
    • 1st Tank Battalion
    • 4th Tank Battalion
    • 13th Tank Battalion
    • 6th Armored Infantry Battalion
    • 11th Armored Infantry Battalion
    • 14th Armored Infantry Battalion
    • 81st Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron (Mechanized)
    • 16th Armored Engineer Battalion
    • 141st Armored Signal Company
    • 1st Armored Division Artillery
    • 27th Armored Field Artillery Battalion
    • 68th Armored Field Artillery Battalion
    • 91st Armored Field Artillery Battalion
    • 1st Armored Division Trains
    • 123rd Armored Ordnance Maintenance Battalion
    • 47th Armored Medical Battalion
    • Military Police Platoon
    • Band


    Was the reorganisation in Casablanca?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2023
  11. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    There was an intermediate reorganization before the division departed the US, organizing the tanks into two armored regiments, each with two medium and one light battalion.
     
  12. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    That is more or less correct, but was actually the second Table of Organization and Equipment (T/O&E).

    The first, hastily cobbled together from existing bits was T/O&E 17P (for Provisional) dated 8 August 1940.

    Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Armored Division
    1st Reconnaissance Battalion (Armored)
    1st Armored Brigade
    Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Armored Brigade
    1st Armored Regiment, Light (Light)
    13th Armored Regiment (Light)
    69th Armored Regiment, Medium (Medium)
    68th Field Artillery (Armored)
    16th Engineer Battalion (Armored)
    6th Infantry (Armored)
    27th Field Artillery Battalion (Armored)
    47th Signal Company (Armored)
    19th Ordnance Company (Medium Maintenance) (Armored)
    13th Quartermaster Battalion (Armored)
    47th Medical Battalion (Armored)

    The second, which you show, was T/O&E 17 dated 15 November 1940. The third was T/O&E 17 dated 1 March 1942, eliminated the brigade headquarters, reduced the armored regiments to two and reorganized them, and made many other detailed changes. That was the organization it had during TORCH, while fighting in Tunisia, refitting in Morocco, and its early operations in Italy in 1943 and the first half of 1944.

    No, that is the date of the revision to T/O&E 17, which completely reorganized 13 of the 16 existing armored divisions. However, the 2d, which was on Sicily at the time, the 3d, which was in England, and the 1st, which was in Italy, did not reorganize immediately since they were already in theater. Eventually at the request of Eisenhower, the 2d and 3d retained that organization, with modifications. Because it was in combat, the 1st did not reorganize until July 1944 at the end of the Rome Campaign. It was taken out of the line on 20 July to begin reorganizing under the new T/O&E at Bolgheri, Italy. The division completed reorganizing by 20 August, making it the last armored division to do so. The 1st Armored Regiment, less 2d Battalion, was redesignated the 1st Tank Battalion. The 13th Armored Regiment, less Headquarters and Headquarters Company 1st Battalion, Companies A, B, and C, Headquarters and Headquarters Company 2d Battalion, 3d Battalion, Maintenance Company, and Reconnaissance Company, was redesignated the 13th Tank Battalion. The 3d Battalion, 13th Armored Regiment was redesignated the 4th Tank Battalion and Reconnaissance Company was redesignated Troop D, 81st Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron.

    BTW, most do not realize there was actually a fifth revision to T/O&E 17 at the end of the war dated 24 January 1945. It retained most of the layout of the 15 September 1943 organization but extensively revised equipment - the most significant change was the substitution of Medium Tanks M4 (105) for the 75mm HMC M8 in the Assault Gun Platoons of the Armored Infantry Battalions but there were many other minor detail changes in personnel assignments.
     
  13. Aitor

    Aitor Guest

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    Thanks very much. I will send you a PM if I find how to do it
     
  14. Aitor

    Aitor Guest

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    I got it. The 1st Armored Division reorganised in Rabat.
     

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