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Hitler's financiers

Discussion in 'Prelude to War & Poland 1939' started by Kai-Petri, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Fritz von Thyssen, German steel businessman
    Alfried Krupp, owner of Krupp steel firm
    Emil Kirdorff, coal businessman
    IG Farben, German chemicals firm, gave half the Funds for the 1933 elections
    German car firms Skoda and Opel
    Schroeder bank-on Jan 3, Reinhard Schroeder met Hitler and asked him to form a government.
    Henry Ford of Ford motors.
    Union banking corporation, New York.
    WA Harriman and Co, American shipping and railway company.
    Irenee du Pont, head of the American firm General Motors.
     
  2. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    Many fascist sympathizers in the West. Nazi economics was not true socialism.
     
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    They were keeping the communists away. So they were financed to do that. Hitler promised to do that but never spoke of war, truly.
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    See above. The people did not choose Hitler, the financiers did it. The nation just followed the "mad piper".
     
  5. Bolshevik

    Bolshevik Active Member

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    Kai.

    Wasn't it President Hindenburg that offered to put Hitler into power as Chancellor?

    Then when Hindenburg died, Hitler combined the offices of Chancellor and President into one portfolio?

    Another thing....

    The industrialists that financed the National Socialists agreed to do so on the promise of a rearmament policy. Didn't they meet with Hitler on the pocket battleship "Deutschland"?

    They also wanted something done about Ernst Rohm and the Brownshirts. Rohm wanted to use the SA as the base for the new Army expansion, but didn't Krupp tell Hitler..

    "Rearmament is too serious an issue to be left in the hands of drunkards and homosexuals"
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Bolshevik,

    Hindenburg was talked into agreeing that Hitler becomes the chancellor. He did not like Hitler but the politicians around believed it would be easy to control Hitler especially von Papen. By a special emergency law he took power to himself after the Reichstag fire four weeks later because the communists were a threat to the nation, I recall. He blamed the communists were planning a revolution.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2022
  7. Bolshevik

    Bolshevik Active Member

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    Yes. The man they arrested for the Reichstag Fire was Hans Van der Lubbe, a Dutch communist who was apparently found at the scene. But as I recall, there were no actual witnesses to the lighting of the fire by Van der Lubbe ,and he was mentally challenged as well.

    I don't think anyone would disagree that the Nazi regime lit the fire to give an excuse for the implementation of emergency power.
     
  8. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Indeed. As a matter of fact I don't understand why von Papen did not take himself the position of the chancellor. He was not Hitler's friend to be honest. I guess it remains a mystery why he gave a political position that he was no 1 to run to Hitler.

    And even if many say Hitler was chosen by the people, Hitler took the people's rights away after the Reichstag fire, and replaced teachers, police chiefs, army people etc by people who were practically nazis and followed Hitler. Night of the long knives was one part of this nazification program. Hitler was no finance genius and thanx to Schacht he managed to get money to build the army. And the financiers helped a lot,toi.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2022
  9. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

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    The Nazis had the most seats of any party in the Reichstag, though not a majority. Under those circumstances, in a parliamentary system, it is common for the head of state to call on the leader of that party to form a government.
     
  10. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Yes, but Hindenburg was not in favour of naming Hitler in the chancellor position. It took von Papen's effort to convince him to accept Hitler to that position. And von Papen did not consider Hitler any kind of political threat, just a puppet HE could control. What a mistake.
     
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  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Papen had already been Chancellor(May-November, 1932), and was ousted in a vote of No Confidence which passed by a rather large margin - because he had very little real political support - even the Nazis did not support him. As such, had he tried to make himself Chancellor again, he would have had no support in forming a new government. Thus, his only hope of remaining in power was to form a coalition government with the Nazis, so that he could play the part of the power behind the throne. However, he grossly overestimated his hold on the Nazis, and once he had removed all the political blocks that had been made against the Nazis, his use was at an end.
     
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  12. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Cheers Takao. I think I got it now! Anyway, Hindenburg was not a Hitler fan..
     
  13. Domobran7

    Domobran7 Member

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    Nazi economics are in fact true socialism. Thing is, large capitalists want socialism so they can coopt the state for their own needs. Once you are at the top, you want to prevent market competition, aiming instead to establish monopoly.
     
  14. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Socialism or corruption? Money changing hands between the bosses and politicians while the lower classes pay the blood money. The politicians make the monopolies possible by changing the laws often.
     
  15. Domobran7

    Domobran7 Member

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    Frankly, I do not think there is any real difference between socialism and corruption... anyway, I mostly focused on military aspects on WW2, so I'll just leave these links here, as he explains it lot better than I would be able to do:



    Ustashi in Croatia were socialists as well:
    : Ustaški put u socijalizam : U teoriji i praksi NDH : Zbirka rasprava i članaka nikad objavljenih poslije 1945.
     
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  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    No. No it does not. It explains a wartime economy.

    Price controls - every major warring nation had them.
    Rationing - Every major warring nation did this
    Government control of production - Every major nation did this.
    Government control of raw materials - Every nation did this.

    Why this clown is some how using it to say the Nazis were similar to the Stalinist USSR, is rather purile indeed.
     
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  17. Domobran7

    Domobran7 Member

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    He is not clown, and he does explain precisely what you listed in some of his other videos. And he actually provides evidence (citations, examples, etc.).

    Also, Hitler a) campaigned on these premises even back in peacetime (National Socialist Party) and b) he introduced these measures as soon as he came into power. Essentially, he used wartime economy to get the country out of depression - but this worked only for a time, and placed him on a strict timetable of when he had to go to war before the entire thing collapsed on itself.

    Anyway, as I said, I didn't really study wartime Nazi economy beyond the basics. But looking at the NSDAP manifesto (25 points), we see some clearly socialist elements:
    https://www.vaholocaust.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/25Points.pdf
    7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
    9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
    10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all
    11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
    12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
    13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
    14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
    15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
    16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
    17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
    18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber1 and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
    19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
    20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
    21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
    23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that a: All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race b: Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language c: Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications or any influence on them and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.
    24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: common utility precedes individual utility.
    25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

    State charged with providing for citizens? Socialism, and also part of Communist ideology.
    Equal rights and obligations? Again, socialism.
    Work being treated as a primary obligation and even something holy? Sanctity of work is one of fundamentals of Communist ideology.
    "Unearned" income being treated as something evil? Socialism.
    Personal enrichment treated as a crime? Again, socialism.
    Nationalization of industries? You got it.
    Division of profits?
    Large scale expansion of old age welfare?
    Ability to expatriate land for public purposes for free?
    General interest above all?
    State solely responsible for education, and financing education of poor children?
    National health education?
    State-controlled media?
    Strong central power?

    Literally the only things that are different from Communism are focus on race and acceptance of the existence of spiritual (which itself is a consequence of a focus on race). Half of the 25 points are racism, other half are socialism.

    Communism is internationalist socialism, Nazism is nationalist socialism, and that sums it up.
     
  18. Bolshevik

    Bolshevik Active Member

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    Well I've just read the last post, and your statement that "Communism is internationalist socialism" shows a lack of understanding as to what Communism actually is.

    For a start, Socialism is a PROCESS, a seperate political entity that leads to the state becoming Communist.

    A Communist state is one that has no war, no poverty, no religion, no social inequality.

    No country has ever achieved Marx and Engels vision. Most likely they never will either, because Communism is a Utopian ideal, a political point that a country strives to reach through the process of Socialism.

    Human traits of greed, exploitation, cliques, favouritism, corruption, nepotism, all of these things combine to render the entire political idea attainable only by fiction authors in their books.

    Show me a country that has ever achieved Communism.

    You cannot even point to one state that ever has.
    And human nature being what it is, most likely you never will get even a single country that can claim to be a Communist state.

    Here endeth the lesson

    Bolshevik
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2022
  19. Bolshevik

    Bolshevik Active Member

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    Btw... I've only ever met one person in my entire life that claims to have read Marx and actually understood it.

    When I was in high school, my teachers told me Marx was unintelligible, written by an intellectual FOR intellectuals. They told me that the language used was overly complicated, and sure enough, when I read an English translation, they were absolutely correct.

    It was GOBBLEDYGOOK.

    When you write a manifesto, it's supposed to be in the simplest terminology possible so that not only is it easy to understand, but so that the maximum number of people with a limited education can read it for themselves and understand whatever the manifesto is trying to preach.

    Marx and Engels failed miserably in this respect.
    Don't take my word for it.

    Try reading it for yourself.
     
  20. Bolshevik

    Bolshevik Active Member

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    If you've ever seen Monty Python, they have a sketch called "Communist Quiz", where the most famous intellectuals in Socialist history compete to answer questions about their own intellectual speciality, which they get correct, but when asked questions about English football which everyone else knows very well, they cannot get even one of them correct.

    Have a look at it.
    It was so popular that it became part of the touring Python stage show as well.
     

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