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Incident At UK Parliament

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by GRW, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I'm rather shocked by this lack of historical knowledge on a historical forum. The initial Moslem conquest were almost all from formerly Christian territory and the latter ones expanded into most of Spain as well as parts of France. There were even raids on the British Isles. The Crusades were in part a reaction to this.

    There is one point though that needs addressing. As far as I know the Koran is the only holy book that specifically calls for it's followers to spread the religion by means of the sword. Now Christianity did so but it is not supported by and indeed is antithetical to many of the teachings in the Bible. Early Judaism did call for a conquest of a specific area but that's a bit different than world conquest and it was only justified in that one incidence from what I've read.

    Extremist are the problem but there are some features of Islam that don't help.
     
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  2. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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    This statement is quite clear and uncontroversial. It is amazing that there is any real debate about this.
     
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  3. Brian Smith

    Brian Smith Active Member

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    I go back to a point I have made before on Terrorism. Whilst terrorists may be representing a cause the people people they claim to be acting on behalf of are as much victims as those being target. Whole Communities, Nationalities and Religions become wrongly reviled for the murderous intent of just a handful of cold blooded killers.
     
  4. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    I am also rather shocked that a populations decision to change its religion is described as a 'Conquest'.
    'Change' being the same way British Pagans changed their religion-at the point of a Roman sword.
     
  5. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Maybe they were of little faith.
     
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  6. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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  7. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    ???
    Rome didn't impose Christianity on Britain. Indeed the Roman conquest of Britain preceded the Christianization of the Roman Empire by well over a century. Not so the Moslem conquest of the Byzantine Empire for instance. You may ignore reality if you wish to but it is counter productive if you are trying to convince others of the validity of your position.
     
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  8. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    Think Constantius II and the later Theodosian decrees, The first word in the title 'Roman Catholic Church' is also a clue. Religion can, and ofen is, used by rulers to impose their will. The UK for example is a protestant state because a King liked to 'put it about' and when denied legitimacy for his latest squeeze simply changed the entire countries religion. Centuries of history and tradition were erased for the sake of a simple leg-over

    I know all about the earlier Conquest of Brtiain. I can see it locally in the many gods/shrines that have been excavated on Hadrians Wall.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  9. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

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    Several, actually. Christianity didn't become the official religion of the Roman Empire until the Fourth Century AD-
    BBC - History - Ancient History in depth: Christianity and the Roman Empire
    The conquest of Britain was in the FIRST Century-
    BBC - History - Ancient History in depth: Christianity and the Roman Empire
    This is WAY off topic.
     
  10. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    Agreed, way off topic.
     
  11. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Lets also not forget the Moors in Sicily and parts of Southern Italy
     
  12. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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    Way off. I'd be interested to know if events in the middle ages were brought up the last time someone decided to shoot up an abortion clinic?
     
  13. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    I think you are under the impression I introduced the Middle Ages. If you check you will find 'The Crusades' were introduced in order to validate the 'Muslims have been at it for centuries' trope.' I agree in as much as all religions have been 'at it for centuries' Some religions though were at it long before the others.
     
  14. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Why would they be? In this case it's actually a bit on topic at least as to the roots of Islamic extremism is concerned.
     
  15. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Actually I can't think of many religions that have backed conquest to spread their beliefs. Islam and Christianity are the only two that I can think of that have successfully done so in the last couple thousand years. Christianity out grew that for the most part a couple of centuries ago. Islam has it as a basic tenant. Indeed didn't Mohamed himself lead the early Islamic conquests?
     
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  16. O.M.A.

    O.M.A. Active Member

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    Did I say that?

    That's my point exactly.
     
  17. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    Given I used Constantius II (337-61 AD ) and the Theodosian decrees ( c 390 AD) as exemplars it would be a mistake to try and claim I am confused as to dates. I am a bit better informed than most on this matter.
     
  18. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    At the risk of confusing and discombobulating all, I will interject something that is on topic. There are news reports that the culprit's wife is disavowing her husband and publicly condemning his actions. If true perhaps its about time that a family takes a stand on members who do such meaningless violence rather than claiming they don't understand or going mute. Granted ideally it would have been best if she had provided a warning of a impending attack, but I am not knowledgeable about their personal life to judge if she could or not provide such.
     
  19. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Wasn't the Unibomber eventually identified because his brother contacted the authorities? I do think it sends a message when the family speaks out like this (if as you say the report is accurate).
    ???
    The Roman conquest of Britain for the most part dates to AD 100 so decrees for AD 300+ hardly indicate that Britain was conquered by Rome in order to spread Christianity. Even the areas Rome conquered after it adopted Christianity were pretty clearly not undertaken to spread Christianity but for either political or defensive purposes.
     
  20. Brian Smith

    Brian Smith Active Member

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    Meanwhile quick forward 2,000 or so years......

    After each outrage there seems to be a political line that communities etc should "police" themselves and bring to the attention of the authorities anyone seen as a threat. Given the sensitivities around this we are unlikely to hear too much about the result of such appeals.

    I have seen nothing yet that indicates what the planing was behind this latest incident, we do not know if it was the result of a well planed attack or the guy just decided on the spur of the moment to turn his car into people and to run at the HoP with his knife in hand. Time will tell.
     

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