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Most cost effective weapon

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by harolds, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. harolds

    harolds Member

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    A quick story about the Chemical Corps. When I was taking my training at Ft Reilly, KS, we had a day's training by these folks, where by the way is where we got to fire the 4.2" mortar. At the time this branch of the army was responsible for chemical and biological warfare. As we entered the area we saw a sign board with the Chem Corps logo and a motto in Latin. Several of the trainees started laughing. The translation of the Latin was, "Up their a$$ with bugs and gas"!
     
  2. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    we used about 6 [ IIRC-long time ago] small, elongated-oval type bags attached to 'hooks'' at the bottom of the mortar round, and would remove as many as ordered... the new mortars had ''half-doughnut'' shaped charges that fitted around the round -ha- snugly at the bottom of the round...they seemed like made of a type of ''styrofoam''.....orders were given as ''charge 6'', most powerful, or ''charge 3'', where 3 would be removed[ or whatever charge needed ]...what do you mean by ''vary''? [ I don't remember the max charges on the new, might've been 4 charges, but still longer range than old mortar ]
    pics of old mortar rounds..you can see the 'bags'' [ charges ].the rounds themselves are not ''small''.......top pic SAmerica...bottom<>me on right, living it up in Sardinia, I think [ sorry if I don't remember exactly ]
     

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  3. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    were you in mortars?? or just training with them?? with direct fire, our ''experienced'' mortar gunners could hit a very small target.....I remember this very well -[ one of the few things, ha ] I think it was in Uruguay, I think on about the 4th round, our gunner hit a small target, and kept hitting it round after round![ have to keep sight in line and bubbles adjusted ] that was direct fire, sure, but shows the stability of the round and gun use....depends on the FDC/experience/gunners....
    also, it matters on how the guns are laid....did you use a tripod type sighting device? we used something like this, [ don't know the exact name, I never did it ]....if the guns are not laid correctly, there sure is going to be a wide impact area! the guns can also be laid quickly individually by compass, this will not be as accurate...
     
  4. harolds

    harolds Member

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    We were training, but supervised by experienced soldiers. Direct fire? Usually mortars were behind something and used indirect fire aided by an FO. What range were you firing at? Our mortars were on baseplates/bipods and aimed by a form of regular artillery sight. Generally they were aligned by compass. In the arty we used the M-2 aiming device-a form of theodolite.
     
  5. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    was M2 mounted on a tripod? what year was that? of course, we mostly used indirect fire, but sometimes direct...I think at Viequez we were firing at about 2000m indirect...[.the reason I remember that, is because I remember the USS Wisconsin was firing at a range ''nearby''.].....I guess that was the normal range...I distinctly remember, firing indirect, but we could still see the impact area, one of the FDC guys computed something wrong, because, instead of all the rounds on target, they wanted the rounds inline, or something, and 2 guns hit same spot on left, 2 same on right, and 1 in the middle,[ perfectly, evenly spaced! ] <>something like that....one of the sergeants yelled out, how he knew the wrong data was given to us...the gunners had put rounds on top of each other, that's how accurate they could be [mortars and gunners , FDC screwed up though <>they computed inner guns same as outer, apparently ]
    these experienced gunners were like a lot of soldiers everywhere<>the weapon was a ''part of them''!! I never got that good at it because I got promoted to squad leader..., the gunner I talked about before, not sure of range [ I remember him hitting it-something like/looked like an anthill, but I'm not sure at all what exactly it was ....we also did some direct fire at Sardinia, dead on target...
    you used white/red aiming stakes, didn't you, for arty?? that's what we used, and very weird how the sight picture was
    also, if your baseplate is not seated, it will move until so...so firing will not be accurate at all until then
     
  6. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    That there wasn't just 1 standard charge, i.e. in the case you mentioned there were 6 different quantities of propellent that could be used.
     
  7. Bundesluftwaffe

    Bundesluftwaffe New Member

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    You need to be a trained and strong guy for 120mm mortar, or ? I visited the Dutch "landmacht dagen" in 2009 they had a 120mm (among other nicer things like LEOs and CV90s) the projectile is very heavy. I am not that trained guess not the right mortar man.

    http://www.landmachtdagen.nl/
     
  8. harolds

    harolds Member

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    I remember firing the 4.2s. They were certainly heavier than the 80s, but I don't remember any particular problems dropping them down the tube. Most young men in the service could do it easily. Remember, a mortar round doesn't need the thick steel case a regular artillery projectile has. A 105mm arty round is about the same diameter and I can remember loading the total round, case and projo, into the howitzer. A 150mm artillery projectile was about 100 pounds and we hefted those manually. They would be a lot heavier that the thinner-cased 120s.
     
  9. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Looking at:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_4.2_inch_mortar
    The commonly used 4.2" mortar rounds weighed in a bit over 11 kg (~25lbs).
    The somewhat latter M30
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M30_mortar
    Had rounds that were a bit heavier most over 12kg.
    This list has the 120mm rounds mostly in the 14kg range although a couple weigh in at 24kg
    http://www.pmulcahy.com/ammunition/mortar_rounds.html
    This one has the US 120mm mortar runds as weiging in a bit over 14kg (31lbs)
    http://www.aollc.biz/pdf/120mmmortarm929-m933-m934.pdf
    Considering you are moving them with both hands I wouldn't consider that all that heavy unless you are comparing them to small arms.
     
  10. mac_bolan00

    mac_bolan00 Member

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    how about the browning .50 caliber in lieu of explosive cannon shells?
     
  11. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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  12. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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  13. harolds

    harolds Member

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    Good Lord B-7, apparently this is an experimental system by General Dynamics. However, with its little trailer/baseplate rig it comes out almost exactly like the Soviet model 120mm mortar the Germans copied! Now, 75 years later, we "invent" essentially the exact same system! I guess better late than never.
     
  14. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Didn't some folks say that about the self-propelled torpedo?
     
  15. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    I dunno, did the Israeli's pioneer the armoured vehicle mounted 120mm. If not inventing it, they use them to good effect.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6XXBIysV5I
     
  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I thought the Swiss & Germans had a 120mm mortar on some of their 113s back in the mid-late '60's.
     
  17. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    That has a ring of truth to it. Would bet the Israeli type is based on something else. ..But they are good with that- reinventing existing systems.
     
  18. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    a mobile 120mm mortar..that is a mean 'mofo'!....and they are moving the rounds through 'fast'..16 RPM....Popps, thanks for that video....no setting up the gun...computerized, rotarized??? I've found me a new favorite weapon....our FDC had charts, scales, etc
    harolds, I saw some pics of WW2 German motorized mortars..were these standard?? after a quick search, I don't see much on them
     
  19. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Saw a newer vid where the tube and protective armour lid were motorized into and out of position (was it an NBC protected vehicle- may have had troop carrying capabilities as well). Am too lazy to look.
     
  20. harolds

    harolds Member

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    bronk7: They may have put them on their half-tracks. They put almost everything else on and in them. However, the Soviet/German 120mm had the baseplate, bipod, and trailer as one unit. You just pulled the mortar into position with a kubelwagon or whatever, and then basically just unfolded it. When you needed to move it again you folded it up and hitched it to whatever motorized vehicle you had, then scooted. I believe wiki will have something on it. If you want its stats I can get them from one of my Ian Hogg books.
     

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