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Painting of a ship in the movie: In Harms Way

Discussion in 'WWII Films & TV' started by RetiredChief, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. RetiredChief

    RetiredChief Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    I have been a big fan of the movie "In Harms Way" for years now. And I've always wondered about a specific scene in the movie.

    There is a scene where Henry Fonda is handing John Wayne a set of stars that were once Fonda's prior to being promoted. They are standing in a room where there is a really nice painting of what looks to be a Heavy Cruiser or a Battleship on the wall behind them in this scene. I have searched everywhere for that specific print or painting and cannot locate it.

    My question for all those WWII movie buffs out there is this? What is the name or that painting? Who painted it? and most importantly....Where can I get a copy of it?

    Thanks for your time and responses!!!

    Take Care!!
     
  2. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Welcome Chief! I like the movie also, I know the scene well. I'll start searching and see if I can hook you up.
     
  3. RetiredChief

    RetiredChief Member

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    OK Thanks!

    I appreciate the help!
     
  4. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    could you post a shot of the pic, USMCPrice?
     
  5. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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  6. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    I haven't found any stills of the picture yet but here's the scene. The painting the chief is wanting is shown several times right towards the end when they're discussing Skyhook.

    [video]http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/348030/In-Harm-s-Way-Movie-Clip-The-Navy-s-Never-Wrong.html[/video]

    Hope that helps Slip.
     
  7. RetiredChief

    RetiredChief Member

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    Hey Guys,

    That's the one!!!!

    Now, how do I find a copy of it? or who painted it?, or the name of it?

    I'm sure I will not be able to find the prop person who hung it on the wall, but if anyone had an idea of the origin of that painting, or even an idea of the name of the ship, that would be a good place to start.

    Thanks again for all your help!!!

    Take Care!!!
     
  8. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    It is a US battleship(note the tripod masts). Probably Nevada class(USS Nevada, USS Oklahoma) or Pennsylvania class(USS Pennsylvania, USS Arizona).

    Since it is likely a prop, your best bet would be to get in contact with whatever studio made the film.

    If you want a copy that badly, you could commission forum member ULITHI to paint one for you:D
     
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  9. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    You can strike anything prior to the New Mexico class because the line of the bow is wrong. New Mexico was first to not have a ram-shaped bow.
    The forward part of the deck and hull is cut back to allow for casemate guns below the main deck.
    The next class of BBs after New Mexico did not have casemate guns, but did have a similar bow

    Tripod masts are not a given are far as identifying BBs. US Cruisers also had them....but the after tower was shorter and the crow's nest was smaller than the forward tower.
    These masts appear to be the same height and size and the superstructure appears to on the scale of a BB and not a CA or CL.

    The guns in the main turrets appear to be close together, which was found in the New Mexico class. The same was also seen in CAs and CLs, but given the other observations....

    ...IMHO That leaves the New Mexico class as probable candidate. Either USS New Mexico, USS Idaho or USS Mississippi.
     
  10. RetiredChief

    RetiredChief Member

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    Holy Cow!!

    You guys know your Battleships!!

    Well, having that info will help me narrow down my search on the web. If I find it, I'll post it on here.

    Thanks Guys!!

    Take Care!!
     
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Actually Slipdigit,

    The bow is all wrong for the New Mexico.
    1. In the painting, the bow is straight, before it angles forward. In the New Mexico class, the entire bow is on an angle.
    2. The anchors are wrong for the New Mexico class. The New Mexicos had all three anchors clustered in the bow, one out front & one each to port and starboard. In the painting, there is no bow anchor, and the port anchor is set back from the bow.

    Tripod masts are a given for general identifying of US Battleships, the US cruiser tripod masts look nothing like those on the US battleships.

    Also, if, as you say, the The guns in the main turrets appear to be close together, this would also be a point in favor of the Nevada/Pennsylvania classes, since their main gun triple turrets had their guns mounted on a single gun slide, instead of separate gun slides, thus they are closer together than other battleships' guns. The USN would revert back to individual gun slides in the New Mexico class.

    I have tried to find photos taken of the battleships from similar angles for comparison to the painting.

    Painting:
    View attachment 13421

    USS Nevada:

    View attachment 13423

    USS Pennsylvania:
    View attachment 13424

    USS New Mexico:

    View attachment 13425


    So, no, there is no way, the painting in question is of a New Mexico class battleship.

    Edit: The bow looks similar to the New Mexico's because the painter got the flare of the bow slightly out of perspective. The flagstaff should be at the extreme end of the bow for a New Mexico class, but it is not, it to the right of the far edge of the deck.

    So, as I posted earlier, The painting is of a Nevada or Pennsylvania class battleship, probably a Pennsylvania class, but very hard to tell given the quality of the video.
     

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  12. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    I disagree.

    I am guessing that your assumption is that the rake of the bow is constant from the main deck to the keel. See the attached drawing below of the New Mexico in 1944. The bow rake changes at the waterline to a reverse angle that is close to being perpendicular to the horizontal. The painting shows a ship riding a swell bow up that would allow the portion of the forward hull normally below water to be visible. The view of the ship is from slightly below the main deck, with the forward part of the ship riding up. To change the perspective to make the parts of the bow above and below the waterline appear as you suggest would require the viewer to be at the waterline or below and probably much closer to the ship than is apparent.

    [​IMG]

    As far as tripod masts on cruisers are concerned, please see this photo of the USS Cleveland:

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/025/0402501.jpg

    A better summation would be that it is probably an idealized version of a US battleship based on the New Mexico class.

    View attachment 13427
     

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  13. Biak

    Biak Boy from Illinois Staff Member

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    I have absolutely no experience in this but could it be the USS Texas? He was a Texan after all.

    edit 7/21/15 dead link
    USS Texas (BB-35) 1914
     
  14. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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  15. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    There is a possibility not considered, It may not represent any real ship at all, or possibly a mis-match of various other ships. This could simply be a Hollywood prop rather than a painting of a specific ship. A director tells a production designer I need a ship painting for background shot, go get me one!
     
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  16. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    You are probably more correct than anyone else here.
     
  17. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    I tend to think that New Mexico is closest, and the painting may be a non-military artist's conception of one. JW, thanks.
     
  18. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Originally, I thought the rake on the bow in the painting was not similar to that of the steep rake of the New Mexico's "Clipper Bow". The big problem is getting a view at close to the same angle.

    [​IMG]
    Note how steep the rake is.

    [​IMG]

    This picture is at closer to the correct angle but the bow rake still looks wrong.

    [​IMG]
    Here's another of the New Mexico at close to the correct angle. These last two pics really show the bow anchor that Takao mentioned.
    [​IMG]

    Then I found this picture of the New Mexico in the Brooklyn Navy Yard and using Slipdigit's analysis of the ship riding a swell, bow up, I began to reconsider. But you still have the issue of the opening for the bow anchor.

    [​IMG]
    Here's a picture of the Pennsylvania in drydock, I'm not sure the bow is correct here either, not enough sheer. I went back and looked at the painting again and it does look like, as Slip said, "it is probably an idealized version of a US battleship based on the New Mexico class."
     
  19. Biak

    Biak Boy from Illinois Staff Member

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    I'm trying to compare bows and the USS Augusta looks 'somewhat' close? His first large ship command according to navsource. Clean lines and like Belasar said- artistic license?

    [​IMG]

    This diagram of the Texas threw me too; http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013401l.jpg
    [​IMG]
     
  20. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    That would be my guess. A studio prop painted for the movie. The artist probably just got the general outline right for it as it was only to be used as background. A super detailed painting wasn't necessary for that.
     

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