Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Putting to Bed 9/11 Conspiracy Theories for Ever

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Christopher47, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Christopher47

    Christopher47 Same Song, Fourth Verse

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    13
    One of the more surreal aspects of 9/11 was an idea from a certain section of United States. Namely, that the events of 9/11 were somehow engineered by the very government that was in power.

    To this end, a documentary show, three hours long, was made and circulated that purported to tell us, the public, everything we needed to know about this 'conspiracy', and why we should not trust our elected leadrs of the day as far as we could throw them. the documentary was called "Loose Change", and on the surface of it, it seemed to make quite a compelling case.

    But you have to look under the surface, to find not only the factual errors in this notorious program, but the sly motivation for it's production to begin with.

    This thread will tell you about that motivation to begin with, and will then go on to list some of the innacuracies that I personally noticed.

    I will also invite the members of this forum, most of whom agree with my assertion that "There is NO CONSPIRACY SURROUNDING 9/11", I will invite these ordinary Americans to further contribute their ideas. Together, we will prove to anyone reading this thread, maybe the many guests that we have visiting this site, that "Loose Change" and the host of imitators it spawned, is a hoax of the worst kind. This thread will also assume that you have already seen the doucumentary, and are familiar with it. Other than that, sit back, and prepare to have your illusions resolved, and your faith in the actions of the Great Republic of the United States of America, restored.

    Also, today is September the 11th, 2014. Lest We forget those that fell, and Rest in Peace.




    BACKGROUND

    On September the 12th, 2001, there were a group of people that were starting to become apprehensive. America was awash with a wave of grassroots support for the Republican administration of George Bush Jr. A groundswell of anger, patriotism & incredulous emotion welled up in every city, every town, every small community. Flags flew as had happened after Pearl Harbour. In fact, this was the earliest description of the event, "A second Pearl Harbour" from news services of all descriptions.
    You would had to have been a brave person indeed to run counter to this outpouring of public emotion.

    But one group of individuals saw it as the biggest threat to their livelyhood and position they had ever encountered.

    The Democratic Party of the United States.

    Democrat leaders realized that the support for the present administration was not going to end overnight. Had an election been announced there and then, it would have been a foregone conclusion. You would have been an idiot to vote anything but Republican.

    So they set to work, turning out good old fashioned propaganda. Good propaganda contains a measure of truth within, but its wrapped up in a dustcoat of lies. Democratic Party minders and staffers had to come up with something that would put DOUBT back into enough of the voting public to have any chance of knocking the Republicans off this electoral perch that the events of 9/11 had put them on.

    And so, the documentary "LOOSE CHANGE' came into being.....

    (now, if you haven't already, go and watch a copy of "Loose Change" right now.)


    THE INNACURACIES AND LIES OF "LOOSE CHANGE"...(LC)


    1/ The Twin Towers Were Demolished with Hidden Explosives.

    This is the 'Big Lie' that everyone accepts, based on the footage. LC purports to show these very explosions occurring way down the building, before the rest of the debris reaches these windows. Puffs of dust many floors down and the bursting of windows are pointed out one after the other. Too, LC also attempts to demonstrate how these explosives were put into place. LC claims that the WTC was closed down for 'security checking' for no apparent reason in the days before 9/11.

    Now, it's a matter of public record that these security checks were actually LOOKING for explosives, at certain critical structural and service points, (lift wells, aircon ducts). There were several bomb sniffer dogs used, (thats right, bomb sniffing dogs) and they were after a bomb of the Timothy Mcvey type. The secret service were convinced that a copycat would try again, "because the perpetrators will feel that enough people hadn't been killed in the first attack".

    If you are rigging a building the size of the Trade Center, it takes DAYS to complete the work, and you have to go up and down, checking and rechecking, to make sure all the explosives go off in sequence. The security people shut down the Trade Center for nowhere near enough time to achieve that.
    And on the subject of those explosions while the building was collapsing, what you were witnessing were pressure waves blowing out windows from the great weight of the structure above. They were explosive reactions to a structural implosion, and if you look at enough footage of tall buildings being demolished with explosives, you will also see this phenomena there as well.

    2/ No-one knew the buildings would collapse.

    Here I have a personal story to tell. On the morning of the attack, like many people, I watched it live on CNN. I was flatting with 3 other blokes, The four of us were sitting there, animatedly chattering about the likely repercussions. The fourth one, a fellow called Robert, was a local volunteer fire fighter. He had also worked for ten years in a city Brigade, and had entered buildings on fire, had seen burning people, stuff like that.

    Robert went very quiet.

    We were watching the fire brigades of New York City arriving on the scene, rolling out equipment, putting their gear on. Robert was restless.
    We watched them go into the buildings. Still Robert said nothing while we talked on. Twenty minutes later, we heard CNN tell us that it would take some time for those firefighters to reach the burning floors, and that we should wait for developments. Robert piped up, for the first time that morning. "Christ almighty," he said, "Wait for developments? My gut feeling tells me if those boys don't get out of that building, and soon, they aren't getting out at all."
    "Hows that Rob? That buildings is on fire from the top. The only way their not getting out is if the building collapses."
    "And thats exactly whats going to happen. Those poor bastards, after a certain floor, are at the point of no return. What a waste of brave people.!"
    "Don't be ridiculous, Robbie...."
    "Just watch and learn, and don't crap on about stuff you know nothing about."


    3/ WTC 7 was unhit and was demolished by explosives.

    LC ignored something that building designers often do as well. Those collapsing twin towers had the same effect as an earthquake. Surrounding buildings had been shaken to their foundations by it's collapse. different buildings react in different ways to quakes. some collapse, others do not.

    WTC 7 did, without any human help, of it's own weight.


    4/ WTC Buildings did not collapse from Structural Failure

    Actually they did.

    One of the better documentaries of this day, "Inside 9/11" shows footage of the corner of the first tower to collapse. A huge steel supporting beam, right on the corner, has been exposed by the damage from the aircraft. It is a long section, running parrallel to the building, with a 'Y' shaped strut at it's tip. The footage CLEARLY shows this beam bending inward, immediately before the remainder of the top section of the building comes down. It's the first piece to move, and not a whiff of explosive disturbs the rising smoke when it happens. Gravity does the rest, as this immense structure gathers speed, falling in a never to be forgotten manner, and incidently silencing EVERYONE in our house for a long time with the consequences of it all.


    5/ All the Jet fuel was vaporized away by the impact

    LC tried to convey the impression that unburnt jet fuel could not possibly have travellelled down elevator shafts and burnt there. That every bit of fuel that caused any fire in the building was vaporized by the impact. My understanding of fuel is that it not only requires spark for ignition, but OXYGEN as well. Not all the fuel from the aircraft's tanks was going to hit the air at once, therefore, not all of the fuel would have been alight after impact. It would have flowed out of the tanks, and into a cavity of least resistence, most likely downward. Liquid always flows down if it can.

    Right into the lift wells.


    6/ Impossible for a passport to survive intact

    After all the speculation that LC indulges in for the larger events above, it has the temerity to indulge in a bit of speculation of an intact hijacker's passport discovered on the ground. Anything can and does happen in a disaster. A boiler from 'Titanic' was videotaped with a tea-cup and saucer perched on top, teacup nestled right in the well of the saucer, and upright, as if its owner were still waiting for a kettle to boil. The boilers fell out as the ship broke up, and the lighter teacup and saucer took several hours to fall. But both ended up in a seemingly impossible position.

    So can a passport survive an impact of this magnitude.


    7/ The passengers from two of the hijacked aircraft were diverted to an airport, taken off and moved to an un-used hangar at the edge of the field

    This is one of the more outlandish claims made by LC. Cleveland airport was the location for this apparent incident, and the proof given was somebody's phone footage of the security shutdown and evacuation of Cleveland terminal. Nowhere did the footage show the aircraft landing, or the passengers being run off the plane.
    Heres the other thing. What happened to those people? If the producers of LC can come up with an interview, a photo, even someone on the phone claiming to have been on one of those two flights, it would substantiate not only that but everything else their 'documentary' attempts to show.

    But they haven't. Not one passenger in 13 years has come forward. What an insult to their memory.





    At this point, I'm going to open the floor to our members, who will, I hope avail you with their knowledge of this event. We do this as a public service, to stop the ROT perpetrated in the name of electioneering, by people with no morale scruples, prepared to lie to get the voting American public to believe anything.

    There is NO 9/11 conspiracy.....

    Over to the ROGUES
     
    USS Washington likes this.
  2. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    19,926
    Likes Received:
    2,560
    Location:
    Stirling, Scotland
    Think this would have been better in the stump rather than here.
     
  3. Christopher47

    Christopher47 Same Song, Fourth Verse

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    13
    OK....I thought it was considered a military event...no matter. You can move it if you want. Thanks Gordon!
     
  4. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,904
    Likes Received:
    2,363
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I moved it. I think it belongs here.
     
  5. Christopher47

    Christopher47 Same Song, Fourth Verse

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    13
    oops...thanks folks! Hope you enjoy!
     
  6. USS Washington

    USS Washington Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Good old USofA
    There's this co-worker of mine whose a big time conspiracy theorist, and he thinks that the planes that hit the towers and Pentagon were holograms... His "proof:" Right before the planes struck, there's this white flash on the nose of the jets, and that supposedly(as he says) is when those "holographic" planes fade before the charges detonate, another is that the passengers of those hijacked airliners making their good-bye calls to their loved ones on mobile phones are fake, claiming that cell phones weren't around at the time(Even though the mobile phone came around in 1947, albeit only restricted to the government, and became available to the public in '84. :rolleyes:), and another claim he makes is that the hijackers themselves are locked up at Guantanamo, even though they should actually be dead.

    While I don't want to speak ill of him, as he is a nice guy, and he's a good worker, I can't help but think his views are wacky. Anyways, excellent rebuttals of these stupid conspiracies, Christopher, and God bless America, our troops, our allies, and all the good people we lost on that tragic day. :S! :flag_USA_ww2:
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9,448
    Likes Received:
    2,225
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Cell phones were not around in 2001?

    The head it hurts...
     
  8. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    6,994
    Likes Received:
    1,304
    Strike Eagle, Can you gets us some of what he's smoking? Wait, never mind.
     
    USS Washington likes this.
  9. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6,321
    Likes Received:
    459
    I think anyone who is under the impression that Osama Bin Laden wasn't responsible for 911 is a loone.
     
  10. Richard71

    Richard71 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Wales, UK
    I completely agree that the 9/11 conspiracy theories are very wrong.
    One reason for my belief (aside from plain common sense) is that the sad events of 9/11 were so huge in their scope that any conspiracy would need to involve many more people than a conspiracy could practically involve. So many people would have had to be involved, to be silent accomplices, the idea of a conspiracy is absurd.
    9/11 and the Uk's own 7/7 were landmark events because they demonstrated to us, horribly, that when a terrorist does not mind dying for their cause, they can be much more effective than one who wishes to survive. For example, rather than a terrorist leaving a van-based bomb outside a goverment office, or a shop, a jihadist can drive the van and himself into the target and detonate the bomb when he knows it is in (for him) the correct location.
    A German friend who lived through WW2 once identified the wish to survive (a natural wish of course) as the key weakness of the Heer's anti-Hitler conspiracists. If course, most of the July '44 plotters did die and, with that in mind, how simple it would have been for Stauffenberg to shoot Hitler at close range? He would have lost his life but he would have killed Hitler too.
    Anyway, off topic so I agree that there was no 9/11 conspiracy.
     
    ptimms likes this.
  11. ptimms

    ptimms Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2011
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    98
    This has always been my line on all conspiracy theories, most people can't keep the fact that they know something good about the people next door quiet but we're expected to believe the CIA/George Bush/Aliens (pick your own option) brought down the two towers and not one person has mentioned it??!!
     
    Richard71 likes this.
  12. USS Washington

    USS Washington Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Good old USofA
    Yeah, and he rambles about all kinds of conspiracies, such Katie Perrys' songs supposedly having "Satanic" messages in them, almost everyday at work, it can be amusing at times, and at others it just makes you want to :headbash: .
     
  13. USS Washington

    USS Washington Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Good old USofA
    Nah, he isn't smoking anything(aside from cigarettes), he just listens to this Conspiracy theorist(don't know his name) on his Iphone. :p
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    6,220
    Likes Received:
    1,837
    Location:
    Perfidious Albion
    I am smoking something, and conspiracy theories still irritate me tremendously.
    Not that their proponents aren't also enormous fun to wind up on the Internet, usually being one step away from bursting a blood vessel with outrage & righteous anger.

    Again, obviously, the lizards made me type that.
     
    USS Washington likes this.
  15. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,997
    Likes Received:
    236
    Maybe our good friend Webster Tarpley ,headmaster of the Conspiracy Theories School, who recently claimed that John McCain was one of the leaders of ISIS.
     
    USS Washington likes this.
  16. Richard71

    Richard71 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Wales, UK
    I haven't heard of Mr Tarpley but, if he wants to come up with conspiracy theories, he should at least make them sound as if they just might be possible. A conspiracy theory should have at its heart something that makes a reader think 'mmm...what if that did happen?'. John McCain being in ISIS is just barking mad.
     
  17. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,997
    Likes Received:
    236
    You ain't see nothing yet.Following WT, Lincoln and McKinley were murdered by the British secret service . FDR also was murdered,ISIS is a US-British Nato operation paid for by the Saudis,the Guardian expresses the viewpoints of the left wing of the British Intelligence Community ..Berlusconi was a victim of a CIA coup, Bush sr was involved in the murder of Kennedy and in the attempted murder on Reagan .

    If you are lonely/depressed,google Webster Tarpley, and you will have a good laugh .
     
  18. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9,448
    Likes Received:
    2,225
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Been there, I used to work with a very religious woman, Born Again something or other, who said I was a worshiper of Satan for wearing a T-Shirt from a Paul McCartney concert. He sings music therefor he is a Satanist, was how her logic went.
     
  19. USS Washington

    USS Washington Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Good old USofA
    That might just be the person, thank you for clearing that up.
     
  20. USS Washington

    USS Washington Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Good old USofA
    Weird how some people can regard music as "Satanic," even though various religious groups such as Christians sing songs that worship their faith. :confused:
     

Share This Page