Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Kai-Petri, Nov 2, 2012.
gotta counter A-58's voting twice
If I was in US, Obama.
Totenkopf's video is a good example of the red meat both parties use to rally its base. The reality is that a President has very little influence on such things. Any change in the law must either come from Congress in the form of a new law or from the courts that could strike down a law created.
It stirs passions in a some but means little in reality to the country as a whole.
My position is my own but I will say that I lose little sleep on it either way.
True belasar, Here in the North Land we .....oops wrong thread. moving myself to the "stuffing the ballot box"...
I am a big fan of fox news ,and watching Bill o'reilly,Bill Crystal ,Sean hannity,and my favourite pundit and syndicated columnist Dr Charles krauthammer ,have convinced me that Mitch Romney is my choice if I were a septic..! Wilts.
Romney, though I cant help but make a quick comment as I always like to toss out one of my favorite quotes by Doug Adams
"It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
America has had two business men coupled with Republican congresses, one led to the Great Depression, the next to the Great Recession. Hoover, a self made but successful man of business whose grasp of the economy was weak to say the least, and G.W. Bush the only MBA president ever elected who proudly stated that not only was he a C student, but he couldn't remember his Econ 101. Bush coupled with six years of Republican Congressional control put America in the ditch so far a Second Depression for the entire globe was within grasp.
Romney could only lead us back to that same batch of crap, the economics of the twenties, and backwards looking social programs. It has been proven time and time again in nation after nation that you cannot gain prosperity through austerity. Reagan couldn't do it, and neither Bush could do it. G.H.W. Bush tried but even he recognized that raising taxes was the only way out.
I'm not sure that is either fair nor accurate. The road to the Epression was well in place before Hoover ever got into office. Furthermore he essentially developed the blue print that helped get us out of it. Credit to FDR for seeing and expanding that effort though.
we've been lied to since the presidency of Mr. Peanut and the crapola Iran affair in our embassy. false hopes for America, promises ill kept..........screw all of them, no wonder when I have asked my Euro friends the very same question whom would you vote for if you were an American all have said neither one ..........
but in any case today good luck to the winner, you will need more than that to succeed at all
Too true, but he couldn't fix it before it collapsed the economy completely. And while he did develop three programs for "getting us out of it", FDR had to put those on steroids to even start to turn the corner. However, it was the decade of Republican control with Hoover at the end that really started the dang thing. It could be argued that the Great Depression had its true beginning in the Agriculture of America and Banker's policies toward the farmers. During the Great War most of the food and fiber producing nations were at war, and needed American products. Bankers loaned more and more money to farmers to break more and more land and plant it to crops. When the war ended, the bankers still wanted their money back (I don't blame them), but the world didn't want our crops. Profitable farms turned into money pits, and the cascade began into Depression. Probably as early as 1925 or'26 when surplus crop production drove prices to about a third, and it cost more to plant and harvest the crops than they were worth on the market.
Hoover's solution to the surplus crops was to buy them from the farmers at market value and sell them on the global market at a loss, this was obviously not a "great idea". FDR's plan was the Commodity Credit Corporation; CCC (which still exists BTW), which allowed farmers to put their stable products into storage, get a loan from the government at market value, and repay the loan when they sold the crops later. Hopefully when the crop price had improved. A much more sensible approach.
My point was that businessmen don't necessarily understand government economies, or even economics in general. They have other people for that, and cannot see the flaws when offered by their own experts. Supply side economics has never worked, a government in recession or depression needs funding stimulation to recover. The stimulus encourages consumers, the consumer buys the goods produced, the producer hires to meet the demand for more goods, and tax base grows. The problem FDR created for himself was in cutting back on his minor Keynesian stimulus investments when it appeared they were working. FDR actually managed to balance the budget in the early portion of his second term, and show a minor (few million dollar) surplus. Cutting back on even his minor stimulus programs put America into the FDR Recession, and it really took WW2 and massive deficit spending to bring us out of it.
I recommend you see if you can find the 900+ page Freedom from Fear by David Kennedy, the first third of which deals exclusively with how and why the Depression developed, what policies were most likely to blame as they came together, and why the thing couldn't be stopped really in the aftermath of WW1. Fascinating read.
That's a very good point and one that runs counter to a lot of political advertising, which is further evidence that it is probably correct.
The American public has been lied to by presidents of the last hundred years from long before President Carter. Think TR, Harding, FDR, LBJ, Nixon, as openers. Then add in Reagan, as a real whopper teller concerning his ties to the Iran/contra business and the Savings and Loan debacle. I'm not real sure about Ike, or Ford and JFK either, but those last two guys were around for too short a time to really get the hang of the jaw dropping whopper discovered later.