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Russia and Litvinenko murder

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by Kai-Petri, Jul 8, 2008.

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  1. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Personally I´d say this is a very heavy argument....

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    BBC NEWS | UK | Russia 'backed Litvinenko murder'

    The murder of former Russian agent Alexander Litvinenko was carried out with the backing of the Russian state, Whitehall sources have told the BBC.

    Newsnight has also learned that officers at MI5 believe they thwarted an attempt last summer to kill another Russian dissident, Boris Berezovsky.
     
  2. Miguel B.

    Miguel B. Member

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    Jeez that's a surprise...



    Cheers...
     
  3. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    Russians won't sop being Russians simply because the name of their government changes.

    Anyone remember Leon Trotsky?
     
  4. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Care to elaborate on such an interesting view?
     
  5. diddyriddick

    diddyriddick Member

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    Nice post, Kai! It looks like rumours of the end of the cold war may have been premature.
     
  6. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    Are you really ignorant of the history of politics by assassination in Czarist Russia, the Soviet Union, and, apparently, now the "democratic" Russian Federation? Or are you just trying to say it's a thing of the past?

    See; BBC NEWS | Europe | Russian liberal deputy shot dead

    Superville Review: RESPECTFULLY, FOR RUSSIAN ANNA

    FSO: Global Analysis with J. R. Nyquist "The Assassination of Anna Politkovskaya 10/20/2006

    http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=980DE7D61F3AE733A2575AC0A9669D946597D6CF

    Russia, Litvinenko Assassination - JRL 2-12-07

    Socialist-Revolutionary Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Russia, Government, Crime, Chubais Assassination Attempt - JRL 3-23-05


    Many years ago, I took a college course titled, "Political History of Russia", taught by a former Communist party member, a Professor Szabo, who had defected to the US. Among his first comments to the class was a statement to the effect that, murder and politics in Russia were often indistinguishable.

    I could cite many more examples of this truism, but why should I do all your research?
     
  7. Sloniksp

    Sloniksp Ставка

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    Devilsadvocate,

    I am very much familiar with my own history thank you. Every country has blood on its hands including the U.S. so do not isolate Russia as the sole culprate. Oh and that intellingent comment, "Russians won't stop being Russians simply because the name of their government changed " was a nice touch too.

    As for Litvinenko and Anna Politkovskaya, there has been absolutely no shread evidence directly linking the current Russian Govt. to either one of these crimes, only speculation, in fact the killer and those involved in Politkovskaya murder have already been apprehended. Using your reasoning, perhaps it was the U.S. Governtment which had something to do with the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King? The Kennedy's or the attempt on Reagan?

    I think we are finished here.

    P.S.

    Most your sources are outdated perhaps it is you that should do some more digging. ;)
     
  8. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    Oops! Looks like I touched a sore nerve here. No one is trying to "isolate" Russia, however, it sure looks like Russia is the foremost practitioner of assassination as a means silencing political dissidents, whether they are ex-pats or not. And if you don't like my comments, prove them wrong; prove other governments have as much blood on their hands as the various Russian regimes over the last 150 years. I don't think you can.


    Yeah, only speculation, and for anyone who seriously believes that, I've got some beach-front property in Kansas that I'd like to discuss with them, LOL!


    I guess you didn't notice that my comments were to the effect that politics by assassination in Russia seemed to be prevalent from the Czarist period until the present day. Naturally, I wanted to provide citations from that period until the present, so, no, my sources aren't "outdated", they are indicative of a condition existing over many decades
     
  9. Chuikov64th

    Chuikov64th Member

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    Yeah it's only speculation. But believe me there is more than speculation. Let's try a little shell game?
    Expalin this to me.

    Why won't the British give the Russians even so much as a copy of the autopsy report? Why won't they even release it to the press?

    There's a lot of things that don't add up about the Britsh case here people. Especially the written statement supposedly made by Litvinenko on his deathbed. I hear there was only one person in the room at the time. No witnesses.

    No court I know of would convict anyone of anything in this situation.

    Really, Litvinenko was a mob mule, he was bought and paid for by BB, it's just as likely he was a liability to him and needed to be offed.

    As for the Russian mafia keep this in mind, all countries have their mafias, even America. Look at our history.
     
  10. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    Do you have some source to provide verification of your opinion?

    It may be that Litvinenko was "connected" in the sense of being a Mob member, but there also seems to be strong indications that Putin was directly involved in the case. Does that mean that Putin also has Mob connections? And if so, is that appropriate? Litvinenko was also a very verbal critic of Putin and the Russian Federation government; real Mafia operators seldom draw that kind of attention to themselves.

    At any rate, the Litvinenko case is just one in a long string of assassinations, going back to the 19th. century, in which Russian political figures, parties, and political agencies were implicated. You can't blame Trotsky, et al, on Mafia connections.
     
  11. Chuikov64th

    Chuikov64th Member

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    What opinion? I stated a fact. Look it up yourself.

    Where are your FACTS? Show them to me, show me evidence of the link between his death and Putin. Show me the links between his death and the Russian government.

    The FACT is that you don't have any, no one does. All you have is a bunch of conjecture and propaganda in the guise of history.

    I have no doubt that the Russians do assassinate people, so does most every other country in the world.
     
  12. Devilsadvocate

    Devilsadvocate Ace

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    No, you stated your opinion, no facts at all. And you even admit that is the case when you say nobody knows what happened.

    I admit that Russian state involvement in the Litvinenko case is conjectural, but the British government has enough evidence to STATE that they believe the Russian government was deeply involved. They wouldn't do that if there was much chance they would have to admit down the road that they were wrong. In addition, for one government to make such accusations against another can have serious foreign policy consequences, so it's never done lightly.

    Sorry, but all you know is what you read in the media, and imagine in your mind. I think the British government has more sources of information than you do and if they say the Russian government, and maybe Putin himself, was involved, I'm inclined to believe them over your unsupported opinion.

    And saying "everybody does it" doesn't cut it. Not all governments make a practice of silencing political dissent by murdering people. Russia has a verifiable history of doing so, and nothing you've presented, so far changes that. Tell me Leon Trotsky isn't a case in point.
     
  13. Chuikov64th

    Chuikov64th Member

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    This is a FACT!!! THE BRITISH WILL NOT ALLOW THE RUSSIANS TO SEE THE AUTOPSY REPORT!! THEY WILL NOT RELEASE IT!!

    Another FACT is that the doctor who did the autopsy refused to disclose his name on the report.

    Does he fear for his life? Perhaps his reputation..................

    You're gullible.
     
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  14. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Okay, this one has gone far enough.

    Thread is closed.
     
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