Discussion in 'Military History' started by texson66, Aug 8, 2008.
Sorry JC, I meant the Russian supplies to the area not foreign supplies to Georgia.
Russia disputes claim of Georgian pullout
52 minutes ago
TBILISI, Georgia - Russia's foreign minister is disputing Georgia's claim that its troops have pulled out of South Ossetia, the separatist region where fighting with Russian forces has killed hundreds this weekend.
Earlier Sunday, Georgia said its troops were withdrawing and President Mikhail Saakashvili said he was calling a cease-fire.
But Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov disputed that in a telephone call with his Georgian counterpart Eka Tkeshelashvili, a ministry statement said.
In the call, "the Russian side brought in facts about the presence of Georgian forces in certain neighborhoods of Tskhinvali," the South Ossetian capital where fighting has been heaviest, the statement said.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
GORI, Georgia (AP) — Georgian troops retreated from the breakaway province of South Ossetia on Sunday as their U.S.-allied government ordered a cease-fire and pressed for a truce, overwhelmed by Russian firepower in a conflict that threatened to set off a wider war.
Russia deployed a naval squadron off the coast of another of Georgia's separatist regions, Abkhazia, and its jets bombed the outskirts of Tblisi, the Georgian capital.
Georgia's Foreign Ministry said its soldiers were observing a cease-fire on orders of the president and notified Russia's envoy to Tbilisi.
"Georgia expresses its readiness to immediately start negotiations with the Russian Federation on cease-fire and termination of hostilities," the ministry said in a statement.
The Russian Foreign Ministry had no immediate response to the Georgian offer. It came as the U.N. Security Council — where Russia has veto power — met in an open session and European diplomats sought to mediate.
Georgia, whose troops have been trained by American soldiers, began an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia overnight Friday, launching heavy rocket and artillery fire and air strikes that pounded the provincial capital, Tskhinvali.
In response, Russia, which has granted passports to most South Ossetians, launched overwhelming artillery shelling and air attacks on Georgian troops.
Russia has demanded that Georgia pull out its troops from South Ossetia as a condition for a cease-fire. It also urged Georgia to sign a pledge not to use force against South Ossetia as another condition for ending hostilities.
Earlier, Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said that Moscow now needs to verify the Georgian withdrawal. "We must check all that. We don't trust the Georgian side," he said.
On Sunday, Russian jets raided a plant on the eastern outskirts of Tbilisi that builds Su-25 ground jets. The attack damaged runways but caused no casualties, said Georgia's Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili.
"We heard a plane go over and then a big explosion," said Malkhaz Chachanidze, a 41-year old ceramics artist whose house is located just outside the fence of the factory, which has been running since the Soviet era. "It woke us up, everything shook."
The risk of the conflict setting off a wider war increased when Russian-supported separatists in another breakaway region of Georgia, Abkhazia, launched air and artillery strikes on Georgian troops to drive them out of a small part of the province they control. Fifteen U.N. military observers were told to evacuate.
Both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and have built up ties with Moscow. Russia has granted its passports to most of their residents.
In yet another sign that the conflict could widen, Ukraine warned Russia on Sunday it could bar Russian navy ships from returning to their base in the Crimea because of their deployment to Georgia's coast.
President Bush called for an end to the Russian bombings and an immediate halt to the violence.
"The attacks are occurring in regions of Georgia far from the zone of conflict in South Ossetia. They mark a dangerous escalation in the crisis," Bush said in a statement to reporters while attending the Olympic Games in Beijing.
Karasin said the ships were sent toward Abkhazia as a deterrent.
"The deployment is quite natural. We don't want a repeat of what happened in South Ossetia," he said at a news conference.
The foreign ministers of France and Finland were headed to Georgia to discuss ways to end the conflict, and the U.N. Security Council met for the fourth time in four days to discuss the situation.
Russian jets have been roaming Georgia's skies since Friday. They raided several air bases and bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility. The Russian warplanes also struck near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline which carries Caspian crude to the West, but no supply interruptions have been reported.
Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili called it an "unprovoked brutal Russian invasion."
Jim Jeffrey, Bush's deputy national security adviser, warned "if the disproportionate and dangerous escalation on the Russian side continues, that this will have a significant long-term impact on U.S.-Russian relations."
A Russian raid on Gori near South Ossetia Saturday which apparently targeted a military base on the town's outskirts left numerous civilian casualties.
An Associated Press reporter who visited the town shortly after the strike saw several apartment buildings in ruins, some still on fire, and scores of dead bodies and bloodied civilians. The elderly, women and children were among the victims.
Russian officials said they weren't targeting civilians, but Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Georgia brought the airstrikes upon itself by bombing civilians and Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia. He warned that the small Caucasus country should expect more attacks.
"Whatever side is used to bomb civilians and the positions of peacekeepers, this side is not safe and they should know this," Lavrov said.
Karasin, Russia's deputy foreign minister, said more than 2,000 people had been killed in South Ossetia since Friday, most of them Ossetians with Russian passports. The figures could not be independently confirmed.
But residents of the provincial capital Tskhinvali who survived the bombardment by hiding in basements and later fled the city estimated that hundreds of civilians had died. They said bodies were lying everywhere.
Alexander Lomaia, Georgia's security council chief, estimated that Russia sent 2,500 troops into Georgia.
In Saturday's meeting with refugees in the city of Vladikavkaz across the border, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin described Georgia's actions as "complete genocide. Putin also said Georgia had effectively lost the right to rule the breakaway province — an indication Moscow could be preparing to fulfill South Ossetians' wish to be absorbed into Russia.
Georgia borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. Today, Russia has approximately 30 times more people than Georgia and 240 times the area.
Russia also laid much of the responsibility for ending the fighting on Washington, which has trained Georgian troops. Washington, in turned, blamed Russia.
Georgia said it has shot down 10 Russian planes, including four brought down Saturday, according to Lomaia. It also claimed to have captured two Russian pilots, who were shown on Georgian television.
Russian Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the General Staff, confirmed Saturday that two Russian planes had been shot down, but did not say where or when.
Russian military commanders said 15 peacekeepers have been killed and about 150 wounded in South Ossetia, accusing Georgian troops of killing and wounding Russian peacekeepers when they seized Russian checkpoints. The allegations couldn't be independently confirmed.
In Abkhazia, the separatist government said it intended to push Georgian forces out of the Kodori Gorge. The northern part of the gorge is the only area of Abkhazia that has remained under Georgian government control. Separatist forces also were concentrating on the border with Georgia's Zugdidi region, and Russia's NTV television reported that additional Russian troops landed in Abkhazia Sunday, heading in the same direction.
Russia disputes claim of Georgian pullout - Yahoo! News
US begins flying Georgian troops home from Iraq
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 18 minutes ago
BAGHDAD - The U.S. military began flying 2,000 Georgian troops home from Iraq on Sunday, military officials said, after the Georgians recalled the soldiers following the outbreak of fighting with Russia in the breakaway province of South Ossetia.
The decision was a timely payback for the former Soviet republic that has been a staunch U.S. supporter and agreed to send troops to Iraq as part of the U.S.-led coalition.
Georgia was the third-largest contributor of coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain, and most of its troops were stationed near the Iranian border in southeastern Iraq.
The U.S. military has played down concerns about the redeployment, saying it may have "some impact" in the near term but no significant long-term effect on Iraq's security.
"We want to thank them for the great support they've given the coalition and we wish them well," military spokesman Rear Adm. Patrick Driscoll said earlier Sunday at a news conference.
Georgia, which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, had asked the U.S. military on Friday to provide transportation.
"We are supporting the Georgian military units that are in Iraq in their redeployment to Georgia so that they can support requirements there during the current security situation," said Col. Jerry O'Hara, another military spokesman in Baghdad. "Flights have in fact begun today and Georgian forces are redeploying."
He declined to disclose flight details. But another senior U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to release the information, said the military would fly the troops back "to the republic of Georgia.
The officials also said American units had been shuffled in their area of responsibility to compensate for the departure of the Georgians.
O'Hara said that even though the loss of forces was unexpected, "we can and are accommodating the changes."
Most Georgian troops moved last year from the relatively safe Green Zone in Baghdad to an area southeast of the capital to help interdict supplies allegedly being smuggled to Shiite extremists from Iran. More than 100 remained in Baghdad to help secure the Green Zone.
At least five Georgians soldiers have died in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.
Some Iraqis welcomed the Georgian withdrawal, saying they're tired of the presence of U.S-led foreign troops.
"God willing, not only the Georgian forces will withdraw but all other troops will leave our country and security and stability will come back to our land," Baghdad resident Ghada Adnan told Associated Press Television News.
Georgia, whose troops have been trained by American soldiers, began an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia overnight Friday, launching heavy rocket and artillery fire and air strikes.
In response, Russia, which has granted passports to most South Ossetians, began overwhelming bombing and shelling attacks against Georgia and Georgian troops.
I wonder how the Russians will take the fact that the US is flying the Georgian troops home and if they will consider it an act of military support.
I doubt it butknowing the Russians Im sure they will moan about it... Though I suspect its already been ok'ed by Putin.
Lets face a 1000 more Georgian troops aint much of a hinderance to the Soviet, oops I mean Russian Army... Though I have been quite surprised at the old kit they are using. They have plenty of T-80s but I have seen only BMP-1s and now T-55s and MTLBs. All their best kit must still be in Checnya or broken...
"We are supporting the Georgian military units that are in Iraq in their redeployment to Georgia so that they can support requirements there during the current security situation," said Col. Jerry O'Hara, another military spokesman in Baghdad.
Thats a new one on me. kind of like a "Police Action".
Just press speak for 'its gone to sh#t' in Georgia.
I read that Reuters is reporting
has this been confirmed?
yea lets hope the US doesint enter in this little war
So do I!
It's Russia's backyard, let'em sort it out...
BTW, what has Georgia to do in the NATO alliance?
When did Georgia become a North Atlantic state?
Well I wouldn't want to see Russians in Mexico or more of them in Venezuela or Cuba.
Mr. Bush needs to pick his battles a little better and should be better pals with Mr Putin.
From just a short time ago.
I watched a news report last night and it spooked the hell out of me and i watched someone from within the Russian Government in a monumental rage saying that Russia should forever crush this breakaway state for all time and that Georgia be forcebly returned to Russia, i thought i was watching a propaganda film of Nazi Germany, it further spooked me when Vladimir Putin said the same thing.
I have seen many a time the cold dark look in Putins eyes, he is a man of evil, he reminds me of a modern Adolf Hitler/Joseph Stalin, willing to stage incidents to crush breakaway states, there is no doubt it Putin wants to ressurrect the Soviet Union, this former head of the KGB and Stalinist idealogue, wan't to restore the might of the Soviet Union.
Putin as head of Russia has threatened his neighbours, he has repeatedly cut of gas supplies to Byelorrussia, he has been personally implicated in the attempted assasination of the Ukrainian President. No in my mind that Putin is a very evil man, Stalin would be pleased.
As of writing it is estimated that 2000+ Georgian civilians have been killed, Russian aircraft are deliberatley bombing civilian towns, in some circles of what i have heard on talk back radio this is Ethnic Cleansing at it's worse.
Russia expands Georgia blitz, deploys ships
By MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI, Associated Press Writer 14 minutes ago
TBILISI, Georgia - Russia battled Georgian forces on land and sea, reports said late Sunday, despite a Georgian cease-fire offer and its claim to be withdrawing from South Ossetia, the separatist Georgian province battered by days of intense fighting.
Russia claimed to have sunk a Georgian boat that was trying to attack Russian vessels in the Black Sea, and Georgian officials said Russia sent tanks from South Ossetia into Georgia proper, heading toward a strategic city before being turned back.
Russian planes on Sunday twice bombed an area near the Georgian capital's airport, officials said.
The violence appeared to show gargantuan Russia's determination to subdue diminutive, U.S.-backed Georgia, even at the risk of international reproach. Russia fended off a wave of international calls to observe Georgia's cease-fire, saying it must first be assured that Georgian troops have indeed pulled back from South Ossetia.
International envoys were heading in to try to end the conflict before it spreads throughout the Caucasus, a region plagued by ethnic tensions. But it was unclear what inducements or pressure the envoys could bring to bear, or to what extent either side was truly sensitive to world opinion.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said one of the Russian raids on the airport area came a half hour before the arrival of the foreign ministers of France and Finland — in the country to try to mediate.
Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Temur Yakobashvili said Russian tanks tried to cross from South Ossetia into the territory of Georgia proper, but were turned back by Georgian forces. He said the tanks apparently were trying to approach Gori, but did not fire on the city of about 50,000 that sits on Georgia's only significant east-west highway.
Russia also sent naval vessels to patrol off Georgia's Black Sea coast, but denied Sunday that the move was aimed at establishing a blockade.
The ITAR-Tass news agency quoted a Russian Defense Ministry spokesman as saying that Georgian missile boats twice tried to attack Russian ships, which fired back and sank one of the Georgian vessels.
South Ossetia broke away from Georgian control in 1992. Russia granted passports to most of its residents and the region's separatist leaders sought to absorb the region into Russia.
Georgia, whose troops have been trained by American soldiers, began an offensive to regain control over South Ossetia overnight Friday, launching heavy rocket and artillery fire and air strikes that pounded the regional capital Tskhinvali. Georgia says it was responding to attacks by separatists.
In response, Russia launched massive artillery shelling and air attacks on Georgian troops.
Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said more than 2,000 people had been killed in South Ossetia since Friday, most of them Ossetians with Russian passports. The figures could not be independently confirmed.
The respected Russian radio station Ekho Moskvy reported that two journalists were killed by South Ossetian separatists, citing a correspondent of Russian Newsweek magazine.
Thousands of civilians have fled South Ossetia — many seeking shelter in the Russian province of North Ossetia.
"The Georgians burned all of our homes," said one elderly woman, as she sat on a bench under a tree with three other white-haired survivors of the fighting.
She seemed confused by the conflict. "The Georgians say it is their land," she said. "Where is our land, then? We don't know."
The scope of Russia's military response has the Bush administration deeply worried.
"We have made it clear to the Russians that if the disproportionate and dangerous escalation on the Russian side continues, that this will have a significant long-term impact on U.S.-Russian relations," U.S. deputy national security adviser Jim Jeffrey told reporters.
The U.S. military began flying 2,000 Georgian troops home from Iraq after Georgia recalled them, even while calling for a truce.
"Georgia expresses its readiness to immediately start negotiations with the Russian Federation on a cease-fire and termination of hostilities," the Georgian Foreign Ministry said in a statement, adding that it had notified Russia's envoy to Tbilisi.
But Russia insisted Georgian troops were continuing their attacks.
Alexander Darchiev, Russia's charge d'affairs in Washington, said Georgian soldiers were "not withdrawing but regrouping, including heavy armor and increased attacks on Tskhinvali."
"Mass mobilization is still under way," he told CNN's "Late Edition."
President Bush sought to contain the conflict in Georgia on Sunday as the White House warned that "Russian aggression must not go unanswered." Bush, in Beijing for the Olympics, has pressed for internaitonal mediation and reached out Sunday to French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who heads the European Union. The two agreed on the need for a cease-fire and a respect for Georgia's integrity, a White House spokesman said.
The U.N. Security Council met for the fourth time in four days Sunday, with U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad accusing Moscow of seeking "regime change" in Georgia and resisting attempts to make peace. Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said Russians don't use the expression, but acknowledged there were occasions when elected leaders "become an obstacle."
Georgia borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. Both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s.
Both separatist provinces have close ties with Moscow, while Georgia has deeply angered Russia by wanting to join NATO.
Georgia's Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia said the Georgian troops had to move out of South Ossetia because of heavy Russian shelling. "Russia further escalated its aggression overnight, using weapons on an unprecedented scale," Lomaia said.
French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner called the hostilities in South Ossetia "massacres," hours before he and Finnish counterpart Alexander Stubb left for Tbilisi and a meeting with Saakashvili.
Kouchner said he would deliver a "message of peace" to Georgia and Russia, and call on both countries "to stop the fighting immediately."
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, meeting Saturday with South Ossetia refugees who had fled across the border to the Russian city of Vladikavkaz, described Georgia's actions as "complete genocide." Putin also said Georgia had lost the right to rule the breakaway province — an indication Moscow could be ready to absorb the province.
Russian jets raided several Georgian air bases Saturday and bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility. The Russian warplanes also struck near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline which carries Caspian crude to the West.
Russian officials said they were targeting Georgian communications and lines of supply. But a Russian raid Saturday on Gori near South Ossetia, which apparently targeted a military base on the town's outskirts, also killed many civilians.
Tskhinvali residents who survived the Georgian bombardment overnight Friday by hiding in basements and later fled the city estimated that hundreds of civilians had died.
The Georgian government said Sunday that 6,000 Russian troops have rolled into South Ossetia from the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia and 4,000 more landed in Abkhazia. The Russian military wouldn't comment on troop movements.
Russia also sent a naval squadron to blockade Georgia's Black Sea coast. Ukraine, where the ships were based, warned Russia in response that it has the right to bar the ships from coming back to port because of their mission.
Both Ukraine and Georgia have sought to free themselves of Russia's influence, and to integrate into the West and join NATO.
Georgia said it has shot down 10 Russian planes, but Russia acknowledged only two.
NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said Russia violated Georgia's territorial integrity in South Ossetia and employed a "disproportionate use of force."
Adding to Georgia's woes, Russian-supported separatists in Abkhazia launched air and artillery strikes on Georgian troops to drive them out of a small part of the province they control.
Abkhazia's separatist government called out the army and reservists on Sunday and declared it would push Georgian forces out of the northern part of the Kodori Gorge, the only area of Abkhazia still under Georgian control. Separatist Abkhazia forces also were concentrating on the border near Georgia's Zugdidi region.
Russia expands Georgia blitz, deploys ships - Yahoo! News
Not to make light of a dire situation, but doesn't that name have a terrible consonant to vowel ratio?
You strangely named subject! RUSSIA attaks Georgia! lol Our armies went there to solve a dispute between Georgia and south Ossetia, because 90 % population of south Ossetia our peoples! And georgians in general began to shoot this in our armies! We did not make nothing with him simply arrived in south Ossetia and began here in us to shoot! If we would like wars then would open fire with first! How what will by the way explain that in south Ossetia we are foughted not only with georgians, but and with mercinaries! There were there negroes (in Russia black mans named this word so don't angry)! They killed our peoples and Ossetians! This is military crime - to kill peace inhabitants! We will not so leave this! Saakashvily will go in prison! He killed our people, our citizens and ossetins! He will pay for this!
And by the way! listen what piceful citizens talk! They said you true!
Hmm, soon or late this thread will start to boil. Is it my sixth sense that commands me not to comment on this current situation? As long as all of you can keep this civil, you may discuss this delicate political situation, but if things go saur , I or (any other mod) would have to intefer.
Don't judge a russian by what you see on TV.
Putin's sinister look in this setting (TV) is not unusual.
I have done some business with russians, and the first thing that strikes you are that they never smile during business negotiations.
Their dead straight stonefaces make you think you are attending a funeral.
The western way of smiling when we welcome people doing business with us is unfamiliar to the russians.
They save their smiles to their family and close friends.
However, when they trust you and after having emptied a bottle of vodka with you, they are the most generous people you can think of.