Stalin focuses on Production of T-34's

With all the T-34´s Stalin would have won the Winter War and Hitler would not have attacked the USSR...

Oops. Did I spoil it?
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hey, just to comment on your msg, i dont really think the Russians lost the witer war due to the poor quality of their tanks they used, as the Finns had no heavy tanks of there own or large scale armoured fighting or any air power of note.

it was there hit and run tactics, ski troops and knowledge of the terrain coupled with very poor Soviet tactics and operational thinking which ruined their campaign.

 

One aspect that has not being covered and that is air superiorority, if we assume that the Soviet Red Air Force is effectively wiped out in the first 24 hours of Operation Barbarossa within the west then we have so many T-34/76's running around without air protection, making them vulnerable to air attack and also deployment how are these tanks are to be deployed spread along the front, meaning we have one tank per 200 metres or massed.

More to come.

 

Good news for the Germans indeed, as they would have had tanks(captured) that could actually move and fire at the gate of Moscow.
Unlike the Germans, the Russians didn't use their tanks in large formations, which made them easy meat for the Anti-Tank guns.

 

The early German anti tank guns that were shooting through the Bt-7 and the T-26 were ineffective against the new T-34's.

 

Just wanted to finish off my previous posting, The Soviet did not use their T-34/76's in massed formations, they did eventually learn that from the Germans with their tank armies but as i said tanks are vulnerable to air attack. Plus the Soviets at that point were still recovering from the pre war purges, they did not know how to fight against the Kettenkreigen tatics of large encirclements, also Blitzkrieg of quick mobile armoured spearheads penetrating deep into the Soviet rear.

That maybe true but the Germans by 1941 did use the mighty 88 as PaK's, but the Germans would not solely rely on the 88 as anti-tank defense they had plenty of other weapons as you know.

To conclude also the Soviets would not have 10,000 serving in one theatre they would have to have some serving in the Caucasus, Persia and their Far Eastern command. Plus they would have to hold a bulk of them in reserve so in the end you might have 2,000 to 3,000 actually on the front lines and that if taking Finland into the equation that is one T-34 every 700 to 800 metres. Hundreds would if the invasion went as per real time would be captured and used against their previous owners.

 

The Russians would be far better of with 10,000 T-34's in their arsenal then the 14,000-15,000 absolete tanks which were used in reality. Now if the Germans failed to accomplish their tasks against the absolete tanks then how might they fair against machines which in turn make their own Panzers absolete?

Gentlemen, might you be taking my thread a little too seriously?

 

Tanks are steel coffins if the commanders don't know how to use them.

 

They are indeed.

One thing that has not been covered and that is to my knowledge the Soviet T-34/76 did not have radios and that communication between tank commander was still by hand signals, if that is not the case then someone set me right.

If i am right then the same goes as per real time, Soviet tank commanders are in effect are deaf to the next tank, the Soviet tank formations can't operate as large formations, and they can't because they are to widely dispersed along the front and not in massed formations and are vulnerable to air strikes as well.

 

Yes you are correct, this however was in the beginning of the conflict as radios were equiped later on. The Germans faced the 15000 absolete Russian tanks which had the same problem.

Surely the Germans would have had a harder time with the 10,000 T-34's rather then 15,000 pee shooters they actully faced?

 

Absolutely, no doubt about that, but i am going on what happened on the battlefield and the quality of tatics to cope with the situation as per June 1941 to November 1942 the Soviets were on the back foot, they had no answer to the Cauldron Battles on encirclement, i will say it is a beautiful thing to have all those T-34/76's but to be effective they must be able to communicate with each other and to commanding officers down the line, if they had no radio's then they are deaf to changing orders and can't act in fluidity in changing conditions of battle.

And the Soviets did learn valuable lessons in battle, they eventually massed their Armour into Tank Armies, like the German Panzer Gruppen, but initially the Soviets would lose hundred or thousands of T-34/76's not because they were inferior or that the tank crews themselves were bad tankers, but because the Soviets were still recovering from the pre-war blood letting. Leadership would be the dictate in the early phase of how the Soviets would cope with the Blitzkrieg, and they coped poorly.

But then once they got their act together Germany would struggle.

 

Im not sure we disagree here.

I guess the point im making is that, if the Germans failed to accomplish their tasks against 15,000 pea shooters then perhaps they would fair even poorer against the T-34's?

Oh and while the early T-34's had no idividual radio's which all tanks could communicate with then did have receivers.

 

Point taken, initial Soviet set back, but whamo Soviets would still kick German butt. Due to production of tanks. Germany could not match the Soviets.

 

If that was the case, then the Germans would have tried to capture the industrial areas of Russia instead of Ukraine. They would have also developed the Panthers much earlier, along with more Panzerfausts. The Russians would have done nothing with the T-34s other than made the Germans more cautious.

 

Exactly, and if the USSR have had atomic bombs in 1941, the Germans would have captured the nuclear facilities and developped their own atomic bomb before the end of the war