Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Wellington HZ355 from 429 Squadron

Discussion in 'Air War in Western Europe 1939 - 1945' started by JMichel, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    Jo Ann: Kollack is still a possibility as the LW pilot or it may have been one from NJG 1, not Streib in the He 219A though as Slipper has filled you in, he was in the bomber pulk so to speak but in the wrong area. what I mean by Pulk in the German is in a section of bombers in the stream.

    still searching
     
    JMichel likes this.
  2. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Erich,

    Ok...if there is another one that is a possible, I can send it along to my Uncle. He is very curious about it and would like to know. When I told him about Kollack, he was amazed about his backgound. He also said that since he was the Gunner, he was suppose to spot him. It didn't make him feel so bad about it when he found out he was an "Ace." His pilot, Ellison went down with the Wellington that night.

    Jo Ann
     
  3. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    It was very difficult for gunners to spot nightfighters, especially aces like Kollack. They would usually try to get the bombhatch from below. This was a death angle and the bomber crew would be taken by surprise. Some crews could not even tell they were hit by a fighter or by Flak, as one single burst would suffice to set the bomb bay and the fuel tanks ablaze.
     
  4. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Skipper,

    He told me once about being inside the turret and something happened and he could not get out, I think the hatch was jammed. I will be calling him today and ask him about it in more detail. I have so much to learn from him.

    I imagine that hitting that area would be important. Take out the ability to get you first!

    I stayed up printing and putting together the package of information for my Uncle. I am so excited.

    Question: What type of plane did Kollack fly? You may have told me already. Is Night-Fighter a term used for a specific type of plane or one that has special features for air fights at night. I have the website information about Kollack but there are several German names on it and I am not sure. There was a picture there but my husband said it was a 2-seater.

    Jo Ann
     
  5. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Skipper,

    I just remembered a "Junkers 88." I didn't have my second cup of coffee yet!

    Jo Ann
     
  6. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    The Ju 88 is probably correct but we have to keep in mind that 7/NJG4 also flew ME-110s . The Ju 88 version in the Spring of 1943 would have been the C-6 version
     
  7. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    I have just sent you an email with a WWII picture of Fresnes.
     
  8. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    Jo Ann and Skipper :

    during the time frame in June of 43 only NJG 2 and NJG 3 were flying Ju 88 night fighter most likely the C-6 variant.

    very strange but NJG 4 as a whole were still flying even outdated equipment like the Bf 110E and F, the G-4 variant was filtering in slowly to the squadrons.
     
  9. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    I looked at pictures of them and from what I can tell the gunner would be in the front below the pilot. Correct?

    If so then, the pilot gets the credit for flying into position for the Gunner?

    How many crew would be on board?

    I know my Uncle had many missions before he was shot down and actually I found the following:

    Wellington HE414 Information


    Type

    Wellington

    Serial Number

    HE414

    Squadron

    429

    X1D

    AL-?

    Operation

    Gardening

    Date 1

    20th April 1943

    Date 2

    21st April 1943


    Further Information

    Serial Range HE410 - HE447. 38 Wellington Mk.X. HE147-HE995, 672 Wellington Mk.X, delivered by Vickers (Chester) between Nov42 and May43. Part of a batch of 1100 Wellington Mk.1C/111/X11/X1V. HD942-HF606. For the full list of this large batch refer to Record No.6135. Airborne 2120 20Apr43 from East Moor and headed for the Jellyfish area (Brest). Hit by Flak at the French coast and, subsequently, crash-landed 0255 at Exeter Airfield, Devon. a fire broke out, but the crew escaped unharmed Sgt R.C. Ellison Sgt W.G.Bailey RCAF Sgt H.E.J.Horton Sgt E.C.Nicholson Sgt W.J.Mullaney RCAF
     
  10. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Correct this is why I pointed out that it could be a BF-110 especialy as NJG2 was at Castelvetrano at the time .NJG3 switched to JU88s in mid 43 only , so yes the Bf-110 has to be an open option.
     
  11. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    The Wellingtons usually had a crew of 5 men.
    A gardening operation = dropping mines in enemy waters.
    This Welli was damaged over Brest while doing so, but the pilot managed to get it back and forced landed in England.
    The gunners are in a turret with Browning (or Vickers) and can turn their weapons Into the enemy direction, with the exception of a dead angle below. This is why the Nightfighters attacked from underneath.
     
  12. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    well we all can narrow this down to two units, either NJG 1 flying the Bf 110G exclusively or III. and IV./NJG 4 flying the Bf 110 as well.

    IV./NJG 5 was on the Ost front battling the Soviets and the occasional RAF bomber that ran the route over the N.E.
     
  13. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Kollack probably few a the 110 too.
     
  14. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    yes he did probably an E or an F. I see G-4's coming into NJG 4 III gruppe close to Junes end, beginning of July 43. NJG 2 and NJG 3 did not score except for 1 kill by Major Radusch Of II./NJG 3 near the north of Gouda, a Lancaster reported.

    7 victory claims for NJG 4.
     
  15. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Cheers Erich, I am glad we are narrowing the possibilities. I will try to find a nice Bf-110 E or F . Would this be fitted with Liechtenstein?
     
  16. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    good question on the radar, it should in this time frame though.
    as to NJG 1 I have some 19 claims from NJG 1. Major Streib in his crazy He 219 Proto. shot down 5 of these or at least claimed

    now to narrow down even further our subject area and whom may have been there
     
  17. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Well, I think others have narowed these claims before , but well if there other ones in Flanders it's worth checking the time frame and the geographal area. I would think that the NJG1 guys were more above Holland , but then it's a small country and Belgium is close to the Dutch claim areas
     
  18. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    In the interview that my Uncle gave the "Bullseye", it says that the plane was "Jumped by two ME-110's obviously intent on the one hapless Wellington, Mullaney fought all the way back to eastern Belgium before the aircraft exploded under direct hits."

    I went over my stuff last night and saw that part.

    Jo Ann
     
  19. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    I don't know by the interview whether the Interviewer got this information somehwere else on the ME-110. My Uncle said it was a Junkers 88.
     
  20. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    I would really go for the ME-110, it was night and both are two engined night fighters with more or less the same radar device. They are moreover camougflaged so that a positive identification is even more difficult. Many Germans mistook the Halifax and the Lancaster to the point that they often ended up using the term "Viermot" (four engined) . One way to find ou is to disover which aircraft Kollack flew that night. I think he did not have a Ju88 that early
     

Share This Page