Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Wellington HZ355 from 429 Squadron

Discussion in 'Air War in Western Europe 1939 - 1945' started by JMichel, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    I will look back on my records but I think William Bailey who was a crewman is the one that thought it was a Junkers 88. This is where the mix-up might be, various ID's by the crewmen on-board! He was the one that made it back to England and did not get captured.

    Jo Ann

    Just a thought!
     
  2. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    Kollack and his squadron mates in NJG 4 did not fly the Ju 88 until summer of 44 and that would be the G-1. NJG 4 received their Ju 88's late compared to other Nachtgeschwadern this was also the case for the advanced Ju 88G-6 as well.
     
  3. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Erich and Skipper,

    Just got off phone with my Uncle...short conversation, he was going out...

    He said definately it was two ME-110, it was his mistake. He said that when he first got a look at the plane he thought it was a Junkers 88 and yelled it over the intercom. Then all hell broke loose and they had to get out. William Bailey did not get captured and made it back to England November 1943 and reported what my Uncle said. My Uncle knew that it was the ME-110 when he bailed out and landed but he never made contact again with the other crewmen once they were on the gound.

    Jo Ann
     
  4. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Found out more from him....


    Refer to the interview:

    "When the two climbed aboard the local, however, they found that they had walked into an unfortunate coincidence. Aboard the train, they were aghast to find, were several hundred British POWs who had participated in a mass escape at some other prison camp to the east, had been recaptured, and who had been loaded aboard this train. The purpose; slave labor to unload a Wehrmacht munitions and supply train which has broken down in the railway marshaling yard right there. "We had jumped from the proverbial frying pan into the fire" Mullaney remembers sadly. "Every man on the train was searched by Gestapo as they were ordered off to do the work, and of course, we were unmasked immediately. It didn't matter that we had escaped from Muhlberg NB way up in North Germany - so far as the grim guards were concerned, we were just two more POW's to handle.
    There on the railway platform, Mullaney saw a tragic incident. When the escaped and recaptured British prisoners were lined up, they were told by an English speaking Wehrmacht officer that they would unload the munitions from the broken down German train on a nearby siding. Oddly enough, the highest-ranking POW was only a corporal, who was rigidly against giving assistance to the enemy in any form (particularly in stevedoring the munitions off the trains for transshipment into combat.) He refused any cooperation at all. Frowning, the Wehrmacht officer informed him coldly that if he did not give the order to unload the train within one minute, the corporal would be shot. Again the corporal disdained the order and in view of many civilians, he was killed on the spot. Leaving the corpse where it fell, the German ordered the next ranking man to take charge."


    The British POW man that was shot was a Scotchman who had signed up named "Jock" Britton. He said Jock was his nickname. He was from Luft 3. My Uncle had to do a report once Liberated on that shooting.

    While my Uncle was in Fresnes Prison, he was interrogated by an American that was working for the Gestapo. My Uncle said that the American/Gestapo Agent said he was from Plainfield, New Jersey and that he left America and went to Germany. He said that the guy had a bad "pock marked" face. My Uncle said "that he got hammered by this guy once a week while he was there." He also said "The guy broke my collar bone and I still have problems with it today." He said once he got Liberated after his last escape he was reporting on his Liberation Report and when he got to the point about this American/Gestapo Agent that he was turned over to Intelligence.

    He said that Camp 4B Muhlberg was an Army camp but there were 1500 Airmen there and he always wondered why. He wondered if they were men captured through the Comete Line.

    I will call him tomorrow.

    Any ideas who this American/Gestapo Agent could be? Any picture? I will try and look up the POW Britton.

    Jo Ann
     
  5. Stevin

    Stevin Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,883
    Likes Received:
    26
    JMichel, If you are interested in the comet line and what happened there (if you already can't find enough online) I can get you in touch with a researcher, who, I think, will also be interested in your uncle's story. The man is quite an authority on the subject.

    Let me know.

    Regards,

    Stevin
     
  6. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Stevin,

    I sent you a PM

    Thank you....

    You never know who has what and My Uncles's story and those that helped him are for everyone!
     
  7. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    hi Jo Ann; glad you met Stevin. I was hoping you would get in touch with someone from Holland or Flanders to give you further help with that part of the network.

    I am wondering whether the guy in Fresnes you mentionned who claimed to be American could have been Dessoubrie. He constantly changed his name and his nationality and according to survivors he once claimed to be Canadian , then American and spoke English with a german accent.
     
  8. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Skipper,

    If it was indeed him then My Uncle will recognize the picture for sure! Can't wait to find out!

    Jo Ann
     
  9. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Which is the one you have? the one before or after his arrest? There are two of them but the post war one seems to have been restored.
     
  10. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    The picture was marked as November 1944. Very short cropped hair.

    Jo Ann
     
  11. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    I can't find the British POW from Scotland named Britton from Luft 3. Maybe he was captured along with the other ones and brought along. I will keep looking.
     
  12. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
  13. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    These are the websites that I need to acknowledge that have assisted me in my search for information and the understanding of the history:

    http://www.cometline.org/index.html (Comete Kinship Belgium)
    http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/ (RAF Lost Bombers)
    http://home.clara.net/clinchy/index.htm (www.belgiumww2.info) (Comete Line)
    http://noviomagus.tripod.com/background-history.htm (Comete Line helper)
    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=303&j=1 (about London Archives)
    www.verzet.org (Comete Line)
    http://www.erfgoedeisden.be/pagina's/colofon.htm (Heritage Foundation and others Eisden)
    http://www.pegelsoft.nl/achtel.htm (Personal story of Allied Airmen through Comete Line)
    http://aad.archives.gov/aad/series-list.jsp?cat=GP24 (National Archives search US)
    http://www.bomber-command.info/wimpypics.htm (Pictures and info on the Wellington)
    http://www.100thbg.com/mainmenus/ee/history/history_01.htm (Comete Line about escape and evasion)
    http://www.comete-bidassoa.com/uk_mn.htm (Comete Line)
    http://www.icrc.org/eng/contact-archives (International Red Cross -request Information)
    http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/archives?OpenDocument#<!--%20b%20-->Requests%20for%20personnal%20data (International Red Cross – about)
    http://dissertations.ub.rug.nl/faculties/arts/1994/a.p.m.cammaert/ (About Limburg Line - for English go to the Summary page) see: http://irs.ub.rug.nl/ppn/123909783
     
  14. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    I am working on another list for research on Buchenwald and POW information that I have been to.
     
  15. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    I see this is getting a full time activity for you. The list I have has the 168 names of allied airmen men who were sent to Buchenwald in August 1944 along with about 3000 French prisonners. If you have a 1943, I would love to get those names as I only have those 1944 names.
     
  16. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

    Joined:
    May 13, 2001
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    617
    this is getting to be a wild thread in a good sense........

    may I ask the Wellington in question was shot down where approximately or do we just have the area of the crash which was .......... ?

    am planning a little deeper search over the weekend into NJG 1/NJG 4 pilots as I have an inquiry from Germany regarding a similar instance of aerial action.
     
  17. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Skipper and Erich,

    I will go over my items and check for the Buchenwald names and cross check and see if they are on the 1944 list. I have a copy, I wrote to the man that transcribed The Buchenwald Report, David A. Hackett.

    I know I saw a name yesterday in my readings, a person that was sent to Buchenwald for punishment for escaping also...I will go back and check. I will send the names that I find so that there will be a list. I will be asking my Uncle about Buchenwald, where he was there and if he saw other Allied Airmen and if he has names. I am doing a timeline on my Uncle and it appears he was sent to Buchenwald after his 4th escape attempt and I referenced the Luft 3 Mass Escape of the British POW's to March 1944 that he ran into while escaping. I will ask him about dates, if he can't remember then I will ask about the weather there, at least that will give me a time frame. He got very sick during that time either before Buchenwald or during with dysentary (MS? sorry)

    I will go back to my records and get the locations stated for the crash of my Uncle's Wellington and where I got the information from.

    Jo Ann
     
  18. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    24,985
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    in the vicinity of Ophoven (Limburg), 14 km ESE of Bree, Belgium.
     
  19. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Yes thank you!!!
     
  20. JMichel

    JMichel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    10
    Skipper,

    I meant to say that it was a name of a man that escaped from a Camp then recaptured and sent to Buchenwald for punishment.

    Jo Ann
     

Share This Page