141 Royal Armoured Corps (The Buffs) Churchill Crocodiles

Hi Kathy, I've been researching 141 RAC and may be able to help with a few pointers. Your grandfather was a Driver Operator by trade which means he was trained to drive tanks and also to operate the radio. There is a list of B Sqn crews that the Old Comrades compiled, unfortunately it doesn't give a date but the crew your grandfather served in is as follows:
9 Troop, B Sqn, in tank SUDAN
Commander - Lt Pete Sander (KIA 24/01/45) then Lt Cliff Shone
Wireless Op - Tpr Bill Fisher
Gunner Op - Tpr Bill Hudson
Driver Mech - Tpr George Snashall
Flame Gunner - Tpr Joe Staples
SUDAN was the lead tank in 9 Troop, the others were SUEZ and SENEGAL.
He joined up in 1942 and would have been stationed at Eastwell Park in 1943/44 where the regiment was based. They received their Crocodile tanks here in 1944.
The only mention I have found in the War Diaries mentions him re-joining the regiment on 13 October 1944 from 269 Forward Delivery Squadron, this could be him returning from the time he spent in hospital you mention.
Sorry I don't have much more but hope that helps with some possible gaps in your grandfather's service.
John

 

Hello,
I noticed your reference to your Great Uncle Harry Bailey. Harry and my Dad, George Storrar served together as officers with the Buffs. Dad had a a very high regard for Harry and kept in touch after the war with him and his wife Flora. I met them both when I was a youngster.
Do you have any details of Harry's present day family. It would be interesting to make contact again.
James Storrar

 

Hi,

My father served in this regiment and he was in HQ squadron. I thought i would share this photograph that I have recently come across and would be interested if anyone can identify others in the picture and where it might have been taken. My father, Trooper Walter Morrison, is second from the left on the second row from the top.

 

Paul,
I am researching the role of UK troops in the Ardennes 1944-45. I believe the 31st Tank Brigade was in support, including 141st RAC but I have not got much detail. I would appreciate it if you can summarise their movements in December1944-January 1945.
Thanks
Andrew

 

Good Morning all,

I notice this forum has been quiet for a while, but am hoping there is someone still monitoring it. I'm trying to track down my Grandfather's Churchill 'Crocodile' tank number. He was transferred to 7th Battalion of the Buffs in August 1944 and remained with them through to VE day.

His name was William 'Bill' Mintram - 5499799 and was the driver.

I have a photo of him with his crew, next to a Churchill tank, but I don't know whether it is the Crocodile or the previous Churchill MkIV one he drove (which was hit and destroyed).

Any help with this, or a prod in the right direction on where to get the information from, is very much appreciated.

Thanks

Andy Tickner

 

Hi Andy,

I've been compiling a list of all the men who served in 141 RAC from 1941 - 1945, sadly your grandfather's name hasn't appeared on any docs/war diaries I've studied so far, do you know which Squadron he served in? If I come across any references to him anywhere I'll let you know. The number on the side of the tank is just shy of being decipherable but looks to be T1722??B.

From the view of the tank in his photo I'd say this is a Churchill Mk IV, based on the square pannier door on the left, Mk VII's had a round door here, the Mk IVs were also the bulk of the T172xxx range of numbers. It could still be a Crocodile, 141RAC, being the first unit to have Crocodiles, had several marks converted.

Do you have any other info regarding the date/place/etc of where his Mk IV was destroyed, it may be possible to piece together other crew info from that.

Cheers
John

 

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply. From enhancing the original image (including negative and histogram adjustment), I have been able to make the number clearer and make it out to T1732??B? (I'm presuming the B represents the BZ for British Zone.

I don't have any information about where his MK IV was destroyed, but have sent an e-mail to find out (I believe it was near the France/Belgium border), although I do know it was early August, days before he was transferred from 8th Battalion of the Essex Regiment (153 Regiment Royal Armoured Corps) to 7th Battalion of 141 RAC.

This said, he did drive the same tank for the remainder of the war. If it helps, he told me that one of his last duties was, using the tanks flamethrower, burning down the typhus huts at Belsen Concentration Camp; a small piece of information I know, but the camp was liberated on 15th April 1945, so it does provide a specific date window.

Thanks again for the reply, it is very much appreciated.

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

Your welcome, hope we can get somewhere with your grandfather's history. I think we can clearly say the tank in the photo is of your grandfather in 141RAC rather than 153RAC, the crew have Buffs badges (except the chap on the right - is that Bill? It looks as is he is wearing an Essex cap badge of 153RAC which would almost certainly date the photo from his very early days with 141) and he would have joined 141RAC from sometime September '44 onwards - more on that in a bit. Since the Churchill that was destroyed was in early August he was still serving with 153RAC then. Although I haven't been able to find reference to Sgt Mintram in 141RAC's war diary, as luck would have it, he is mentioned in 153RAC's when they disbanded. The relevant entry reads '28/08/44 5499799 W/Sjt Mintram, W (N/T) HQ [it lists 6 sergeants] posted to X(iv) List wef 28 Aug 44 and att to 256 Army Del Sqn wef same date. SOS this Regt and Sqn as shown wef same date.' (N/T = no trade; X(iv) List = unassigned reinforcement pool, in this case to 256 from where he would have been posted to a regiment; SOS = struck off strength.) From that we can assume that he came to 141RAC sometime in September, unlikely to have been kept hanging about at the ADS before being assigned.

There isn't enough info in 153's war diary to pin down when his tank may have been KO'ed but 12 August is a distinct possibility, the regiment suffered several casualties that day, killed and wounded, no more killed in action the rest of August (bar one on 26 Aug, interesting as the last tank left 21 Aug so could be an accident), not a conclusive conclusion, tanks can be KO'ed and the crew suffer wounds or even escape almost unharmed.

Excellent tweaking of the image, absolutely looks like T1732xxB - the B is a reference to one type of upgrade that the tank has had, there were several, commonly seen are B, K, R but I must admit I've not found what each upgrade letter refers to apart from R which was the major Rework project. There were 85 Churchills in the T1732xx range, at least two I have listed as being with 141RAC so reasonable confirmation this one is a 141RAC tank.

I've not found reference to 141RAC being at Belsen but have found reference to 7RTR (they had Crocodiles from Jan 1945) it was late May that the flaming took place, once the inmates had been cared for and moved on. Do you think it is possible he transferred to 7RTR??

Cheers
John

 

John,

Yes, the chap on the right is Bill; I had presumed the photo was taken shortly after his transfer, but there was no date on the photo itself.

The information you have found is facinating and great to know.

Bill may well have been transferred to 7RTR, it's not something he mentioned specifically, but if they were the only unit at Belsen it's safe to say he was. That being the case, and he drove the same tank to the end of the war, there may be more information about the tank to be found with them, I will see if I can find an appropriate route for information from them too.

Thanks again for all the information.

Andy

 

Hi

Hoping someone may be able to help.

My grandfather was a crocodile tank driver in 141 RAC the buffs.

Unsure if he landed on D Day or the day after.

Name was George W Greenfield.

If anyone has any information about what squadron he was in would be appreciated so I can start researching.

Regards

Gary

 

Gary,

Can't say 100% for sure, although he is likely to have arrived in France either late in the afternoon/evening on D-Day or early hours of the 7th. Many of the Churchill Mk IV and Crocodile tanks had to wait for the larger US transports to take over to France, due to the weight of the tank + fuel trailer; I don't have any direct details, just remember my Grandfather tell me this.

Andy

 

Hi,

Not sure about D-Day itself. I know that some crocodiles landed on D-Day, but can't recall off-hand if it was A or C squadron. The bulk of the regiment landed on D-Day +13. I can confirm this as my father landed on that day. With a quick look at the War Diaries, your father was in A squadron when the regiment was disbanded in November 1945 and he was transferred to the Greys. I can let you know his army number if you do not already know it. This will let you order his service record from the MOD. It would be a good starting point. I hope this helps.

Andrew

 

Andy/Andrew

Thank you both.
Andrew if you could provide his army number that would be great.

Thanks so much.

Gary

 

Gary,

His army number is 14298283.

Andrew

 

Thank you

 

Will send off for the war diaries.. I have 49 images of the diaries from 1944 and 81 from 1945 but would be nice to see if this is the full collection.
one of the images which includes D Day attached.

 

garyrutter1978@gmail.com If you could email me Andrew so we can arrange about the war diaries. Tried messaging you but not sure how on here.
Cheers

 

Hi Gary,
From the list I've been compiling of men in 141RAC, the only thing I can add to Andrew's info is that your Grandfather also served in C Sqn. That could have happened any time from when he joined, plus a lot of men moved about after the war when the regiment was stationed in Rotenburg so it's not clear when he left C Sqn to A Sqn. 13 Tp and 15 Tp of C Sqn were the only Crocodile troops to land on D-Day, the names of those in 13 Tp are known from the OCA but not those of 15 Tp so I can't say if your Grandfather was in 15 Tp or landed with the rest of the regiment later as Andrew mentions.

I have a copy of 79 Armoured Division's history signed by lots of men of A Sqn - while they were in the throws of disbanding at Rotenburg - and amazingly it looks like your Grandfather has signed it - to the left of the div insignia, scan attached.

Cheers
John

 

Hi John.
That's excellent.
Yes that is him.
Thankyou. Hopefully as I keep finding out more information I will learn more and can hopefully most some Information I find on here.
Regards
Gary

 

There doesn't appear to have been any activity on this site for some years so I don't know if anyone monitors it. I have only just come across it by chance. My father Charles (Nobby) Clarke 6295289 was wireless NCO of his Squadron (I think B squadron) in a Churchill Crocodile in 141 Reg. Like many others he spoke very little of his experiences but I know he was in the Normandy Landings, the battle for Caen, Market Garden and the Battle of s'Hertogenbosch and then in Germany. I have a copy of a commendation by Lt-Col Herbert Waddell
Can anyone tell me how to find out more?