AK-47 and MP44?

It doesnt have to be less powerfull, just equal, or at least not much more than the 7.62x39mm...

The 7.92x39mm round is actually the most powerfull "assault rifle round" in the world, only the 7.92x33mm has more kenetic energy, and these are only just considderet assault rifle ammo because both the AK47 and Stg.44 has quite a recoil for a assault rifle. The most effective would probably be the American made 5.56x45mm NATO round, with very low recoil and very good precision plus the 5.56mm bullet has a devastating effect when it hits human tissue, mostly because the bullet tumbles ones inside.

Regards, KBO

 

The AF-16 didnt have a very long barrell so that also contributed to a higher recoil wich wasnt suitable for an assault rifle, and "if" the AF-16 had been the first true assault rifle then the Stg.44 wouldnt be as famous as it is....

Best regards, KBO

 

Why not? The AF-16 was a WWI weapon, which saw little if any use in WWII, so obviously it isn't that well known to WWII historians.

 

Christian it was too heavy and it was to cumbersome to be an assault rifle, it also used fullsizes rifle rounds, plus its recoil was to great for long bursts. It isnt a true assault weapon..

best regards, KBO

 

Not compared to other WWI weapons.

 

Back in ww1 the word "Assault rifle" hadnt even been thought of yet...

KBO

 

But apparently the concept had.

 

No it hadnt because it wasnt a true assault rifle and it didnt have the caracteristics of a true assault rifle...

What they wanted in WW1 was a gun that could fire semi-automatic as well as automatic fire, it wasnt designed to be light and handy, and neither was the ammunition it used, and thus it wasnt an assault rifle. The AF-16 was a automatic rifle just like the SVT-40 and M-14, no more no less.

Best regards, KBO

 

What are characteristics for true assault rifle?

1. Selective fire.
I believe Avtomat Fedorova was selective fire weapon

2. Ammopower bethween full-sized military round and pistol round. (Not really good requirement, most western assault rifles from -50's used 7.62 NATO). Avtomat Fedorova fulfills this requirement.

What else?

 

Ture, in a matter of thinking, however I am sure that any one using the WWI Ross Rifle thought of using it to assault those reponsible in supplying it to every Canadian soldier.
Sorry, I will try harder next time.

Excuse me on one more item, in all seriousness, the MP44 is the MP43, just an update in the year as all my readings go.

May I suggest we all move on to another item of interest? Please!

Anyone ou there have a good evolution of science topic, in the spirit of what we discussed on the AK47.

I sure learned a lot on the ammo used in these weapons, "TY".

Cheers!

 

What does the 50's have to do with the 10's ??
The 6.5x50mm is an fullpower rifle round, only just, but it is a fullpower rifle round. The 7.62x39 and 7.92x33 are both also only just "assault rifle rounds", if they have had 300-500j more energy then they would be considderet fullpower rifle rounds to, and im telling you an extra 300-500j adds alot to the recoil, more then enough to be uncontrolable in auto fire .

A true Assault rifle needs to have medium power rounds with low recoil, and it needs selective fire + auto fire, and it needs to able to fire fullauto with reasonable accuracy on the move, it needs to be light and portable, and it needs to be able to hold a good amount of ammunition, and last but not least its ammunition needs to be compact so that you can store alot of it in your pounches.

Now as mutant poodle suggested i think we should move along because it is obvious we wont agree on this.

Best regards, KBO

 

No, but back when hundreds of Chistians handed themselves over to the Roman courts in order to die and be taken directly to heaven, the concept of martyrdom hadn't been thought of either. Just an example where a fact may precede the formulaton of a concept for it.

 

That may be, but that isnt the case with the AF-16 because it simply cant be called an assault rifle...

KBO

 

50's they used powerful 7.62 NATO ammunition in assault rifles (or atleast rifles which were supposed to be an assault rifles). How come less powerful ammunition (6.5x50mm) can be too powerful to be classed as an assault rifle ammunition while more powerful ammo (7.62 NATO) has been used for assault rifles? Ofcourse 7.62 NATO was too powerful to be good or succesfull but still, it was used in assault rifles.
That 6.5x50mm was around 500-700+ J less powerful than other military rifle ammunition of its time. Therefore, back in 10's, it was definitely intermediate cartridge.
I've shot hundreds of shots with AK-47 copy, it was in my opinion very easy to shoot, actually some more recoil would have been easy to handle. Therefore I dont think 2500-2600J is too much for assault rifle. Especially if gun is otherwise easy and comfortable to shoot.

I'm not sure how many of these requirements Avtomat Fedorova fulfills (dont know its clip capasity, its weight and I've never shoot with one to tell if it is reasonable accurate on the move). Original Arisaka rifle was praised for its low recoil, therefore I believe AF didn't have bad recoil, as it is probably a bit heavier than Arisaka. Ammunition, well, its shorter than other military ammunition of its time and probably lighter too.

My opinion: AF was first assault rifle but apparently not good one. I believe it was not time for assault rifle, especially when all those MP's were developed around the world. Second try for assault rifle was much better and lead great success.

Well, I agree with that 8)
This is my last post on this topic. Lets move on to some different thing.

 

Notmi youll have to answer this first: Wich assault rifle used 7.62x51mm NATO rounds in the 50's ??? because it sure as hell wasnt the M-14 or M21..!!! those are just automatic rifles, and they are really uncontrolable in autofire, and i mean "REALLY" uncontrolable.

Best regards, KBO

 

FN FAL
HK G3

Atleast these and their licensebuilt copies.
They were used as an assault rifle.

 

The G3 was an standard issue rifle that was "capable" of autofire, but mostly fired in bursts and semi-automatic mode, it was never considderet an assault rifle, and is allways refered to as a normal rifle.

The "FN FAL" AKA "Galil" is another issue since it was available in two versions, the 308. version and the 5.56mm NATO.version, and the only version that was considderet an assault rifle was the 5.56mm NATO version...

Here's the users manual for the 308. version.... and it clearly qoutes "Light Automatic Rifle"

 

KBO
The M.P.43, M.P.44 or AK-47 aren't assault rifles either. The two first are submachine guns, and the latter an automatic rifle.

By the way, the AF-16 was designed to be light-weight - but obviously, light-weight by 1916-standards wasn't the same as leight-weight by 2004 standards.

 

Christian the MP.43 was later designated Stg.44, so no it was an assault rifle, and the AF-16 wasnt even light enough for 1944 standards or any standard regarding assault rifles. And christian an MP only uses pistol rounds, so the name MP.44 was rightfully changed to Stg.44 because it didnt use pistol rounds.
And the AK47 is not an automatic rifle, but an assault rifle... do you want to see the U.S. users manual for that to ??

If you can call the AF-16 an assault rifle then why not the SVT-40 or BAR ?? And one thing is for sure, the SVT-40 and BAR were never called assault rifles.

Regards, KBO

 

Christian here's the AK-47's U.S. users manual, and it clearly qoutes "AK-47 assault rifle"....