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Alternative History WWII "Documentary"

Discussion in 'What If - Other' started by trustyoursources, Mar 12, 2017.

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  1. Otto

    Otto Rested & Resupplied with MREs. Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I believe you would call it "padding the post count."

    Or am I supposed to be taking this seriously?
     
  3. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Over the course of the last half day or so I found myself reflecting on a couple of things.
    1) The nature of science and history and how one revises perceptions of the same.
    2) Why am I bothering to reply to someone who is some combination of the following: a troll, an idiot, a fool, and/or certifiable.

    As to the first if one wishes to revise a perception of history (or science) one has to find proof that the current perception is at least questionable. If one wishes to promote a new perception then not only do you need to provide the facts and logic to question the old interpretation one needs to supply additional facts and logic that support the new one. (PLS note that the proponent here has done neither).

    As to why respond to him it's not so much for him as for other and because he has taken a position that I find not only deeply offensive but dangerous as well. Modern Western civilization is built on the concept that the world is a rational and reasonable place and one can learn about it by finding facts and applying logic. The proponent here is taking a position in direct contradiction to that. He is making things up and drawing the conclusions he wants without even an attempt to derive them logically. This puts him in the same camp as religious fanatics of various stripes including the terrorist that are currently plaguing our planet. This is something worth refuting and condemning.



    Thus again illustrating that you are not only not a student of history but don't deserve the title of student of any sort. It would only have taken you a few seconds to look that up but did you bother .... no. And end up looking like an idiot for not doing so. In case others are interested:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cid
    PLS note that he was born circa 1040 AD. I can assure you with absolute certainty he is dead.

    Your assurances like your opinions are worthless indeed worse than worthless.



    No your style of revisionism is not like what gets text books updated it is like that used by deniers. It doesn't improve the story it attempts to mislead and confuse. It is the antithesis of education. As to the "Ruling elite" comment another attempt at smoke and mirrors.



    Because it's a garbled inaccurate analogy that doesn't really apply to the case at hand.


    You are not my brother and I have no love at all for such as you. You are the enemy of civilization and example of much of what is wrong with the world a thing to be condemned and then forgotten.
     
  4. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Let's examine the implications of the following in a bit more detail:
    Now there are two possibilities either you are telling the truth above or you aren't.
    If you are telling the truth then you admit you are lying in your work. The "freedom of expression" line has no merit by the way since you claimed you were producing a documentary.
    Now if you aren't telling the truth you are lying. (Your displayed ignorance suggest that this is the more likely option although the reading comprehension issues displayed earlier if real could allow for the former being correct)

    That leads us to the conclusion that you are a liar. Your continued attempt to defend your lies as the truth makes it clear that one simply cannot trust anything you say.
     
  5. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    At least six other forums, some only relevant because they have a general history forum. Spam.
     
  6. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    Over the course of the last half day or so I found myself reflecting on a couple of things.
    1) The nature of science and history and how one revises perceptions of the same.
    2) Why am I bothering to reply to someone who is some combination of the following: a troll, an idiot, a fool, and/or certifiable.

    As to the first if one wishes to revise a perception of history (or science) one has to find proof that the current perception is at least questionable. If one wishes to promote a new perception then not only do you need to provide the facts and logic to question the old interpretation one needs to supply additional facts and logic that support the new one. (PLS note that the proponent here has done neither).

    As to why respond to him it's not so much for him as for other and because he has taken a position that I find not only deeply offensive but dangerous as well. Modern Western civilization is built on the concept that the world is a rational and reasonable place and one can learn about it by finding facts and applying logic. The proponent here is taking a position in direct contradiction to that. He is making things up and drawing the conclusions he wants without even an attempt to derive them logically. This puts him in the same camp as religious fanatics of various stripes including the terrorist that are currently plaguing our planet. This is something worth refuting and condemning.

    You do realize the main stream view on history is positive claim that this is what happened and this is how it happened no different then my claim also positive claim of this is what happened and this is how it happened. I definitely do not need to disprove the official story it is up to the one who brings the claim to defend it. I am just here to argue for my claims. What is your issue with religious fanatics? If you have a theology I say follow it with conviction. Now the whole terrorist thing is just ridiculous even you know that.


    Nope. Somethings are absolutly certain. El Cid is dead for instance. Something may not be as certain but many of your "facts" are quite clearly 100% not facts but fallacies.

    He may not be dead its most likely he is almost infinitely most likely but he also may not. btw who is El Cid anyway?

    Thus again illustrating that you are not only not a student of history but don't deserve the title of student of any sort. It would only have taken you a few seconds to look that up but did you bother .... no. And end up looking like an idiot for not doing so. In case others are interested:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cid
    PLS note that he was born circa 1040 AD. I can assure you with absolute certainty he is dead.

    Ok so Sid live a thousand years ago so again he is 99.9999% likely dead. But what if he was frozen and could be thawed out? Unlikely but possible. What if he like Noah lived over 900 years? Again unlikely yet very possible. Is your world view so very narrow you cannot even allow for the possibility of low probability things coming to fruition? Sounds like you are the one that is not much of a student.


    I have done a good bit of research I just chose to not stick with everything I found in order to have more freedom of expression in my work. I assure you I am fairly familiar with the official story.
    Your assurances like your opinions are worthless indeed worse than worthless.

    Then enlighten me if you really believe with such conviction I am wrong do not let me stay a fool. Correct me, do not put me down reach out with your hand and pull me up.


    Honestly I would agree what I do is like revisionism. But what i do specifically is a revisionism that enhance the "Story" part of Hi"Story" thus making it better than it actually was. Its an improvement much like what you see with revision of text books as they get updated. I dont hear anyone complaining when the Ruling elite do it.

    No your style of revisionism is not like what gets text books updated it is like that used by deniers. It doesn't improve the story it attempts to mislead and confuse. It is the antithesis of education. As to the "Ruling elite" comment another attempt at smoke and mirrors.

    So your tell me if you are wrong but your argument is that when I do its unofficial revisionism and its bad but when the department of education does it and targets America's children thats perfectly fine with you. Revisionism is cool as long as its state sanctioned?


    How doesn't it work what doesn't make sense to you?

    Because it's a garbled inaccurate analogy that doesn't really apply to the case at hand.

    I forget what this was all about but my gut says you are wrong.



    Trust me I have tough skin I have been gladly discussing criticism of my work. But we can all love each other here no need for character attacks.
    "You are my brother" - The Overcoat - N. Gogol
    You are not my brother and I have no love at all for such as you. You are the enemy of civilization and example of much of what is wrong with the world a thing to be condemned and then forgotten.

    That brings me sadness but I still love you brother nothing will change that.
     
  7. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    You can google it freedom of expression does not mean lying or even insinuate it. My version of events is just as correct as the official take. My version made educated guesses on things I had knowledge gaps of so did the official story. Are you saying mine is wrong because my conclusions differ from the governments take? Come on!

    I feel like I have been very transparent here and responded to literally every person that engaged me as well as tried to cover every point they made. I even broke down my personal life and my creative process for anyone who asked. I feel like I have been very honest. I pried myself on my honesty.

    PS. I am not saying Im perfect or better then anyone just actively try to be honest.
     
  8. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    1. http://mentalfloss.com/article/54196/disney-ice-truth-about-walt-disney-and-cryogenicsmight be a lead.
      Try googling Walt Disney, cremated...

      Again I realize cremation is the official story but how do we know its true.

      Yeah they said it was the primary mission so that the allies would not find out till it was too late what their primary mission actually was.
      Regretfully, the Allies were well aware of Gustav's original mission, and they died laughing.
      You see the gun lacked the necessary degree of elevation to hit the intended target. It also lacked the necessary velocity to reach it's intended target, and it was fired in the wrong direction of it's intended target.

      Ok so obviously the Germans did not intend to blow up the moon base as it took off into space I am not stupid. It was meant to blow it up right before it took off. They did not have enough time to make it face its intended nor get it within range of the target or use it for its intended purpose at all it was to late Berlin was over run.

      I am not an astrologist. I do not know how to read the stars to tell time I make documentaries.
      Dude...Put down the bong...Move away from the bong...And sober up.

      It's astronomer, not astrologist...

      Your abilities at making documentaries are equal to your abilities with dates. They are both nil.

      Right astronomer but you knew what I meant.

      Not an astrologer.
      Again my friend, cease and desist with the Marijuana...Active brain cells are a beautiful thing.

      Thank you for the correction.

      You did not feel like you were there in the room as Trotski stared in Stalin's eyes as he pulled the trigger?
      No...The video ended at about the 1:23 mark...Trotsky and Stalin, IIRC, were never mentioned.

      Dude there is so much more to it the very end is when Trotski take Stalin out.

      Thats one theory
      Did not realize that there was more than one...What are the others, and when do the Alien Space Bats come in.

      LOL

      I can't beat it.
      We don't need to know about your sexual problems...This is a family friendly forum after all.

      HAHA!

      the horse... its dead.
      The horse is alive and well...It is your brain cells that are dead.

      ROFLCOPTER!

      Can you not come up with any better argument then it was named something else? It was still there wasn't it?
      Regretfully, no, St. Petersburg was not there. Petrograd was.

      Seems that your trouble with dates, filmmaking, and storytelling, is advancing...Now, you are having trouble with places too.

      I just looked at google maps it is St. Petersburg.

      Painful words.
      Painful, but truthful. Hearing the truth has been known to cause pain.

      If this is just tough love then I understand.

      Why do you want to ban imagination in History?
      History is what happened in the past...You are advancing some sort of Alien Space Bat Far Far Away Future.

      Further,how do you know that you are imagining History, when you cannot tell the past from the present or future?
      So, AFAIK, you are talking about some Alien Space Bat Far Far Away Future.

    2. lmao

      So what you are saying is where Korea is today during world war ii was just nothing? like a vacuum? or was it ocean? Im lost.
      I figured you would be lost...You missed the left turn at Albuquerque. To fix that, head back in a reciprocal direction, and take your "other left" at Albuquerque.

      Seesh, Do you have any strong suits? We have been crossing of a lot in our discussions.

    3. Yeah art
    4. [​IMG]
      I feel like I do though
      My suggestion would be to seek psychiatric help for these delusions of grandeur that you are having.

      ._.

      Sounds like you are scared to actually argue against my conclusions and keep back peddling to this dead horse date thing.
      It is hard to argue about your impressions of the future...Since the future has not happened yet.

      We are discussing History...

      Yeah he did. Who killed Stalin?
      God did...He kills everybody. Even Trotsky and Stalin...and Elvis.

      possible but improbable.

      At least you are using some imagination.
      It didn't require imagination.

      The Heart Attack Gun fired a poison dart. Few things are dart shaped. You are not going to cover up a dart hole by hitting the body with a chair.
    5. Foundation may have done the trick it can cover up really pronounced acny I dont see how a little dart hole is any different
     
  9. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    It most certainly is not. The current view(s) on historical events has been derived from various sources and reasoning. Your claim simply asserted various events, many obviously counter factual, then made claims based on your concept of "entertainment value". Not even close.
    You do realize you just contradicted yourself don't you? You have made claims that are quite obviously counterfactual. It's up to you to support them. Some have supplied evidence that your claims are counterfactual and you've simply ignored it. Some have pointed out the vast logical holes in your claims and you've ignored it. You have demonstrated an incredible ignorance of history and claim to be a student.
    Seriously??? I guess this makes it clear. You are the enemy.

    No, sorry you are way off base again. There's no way his body could have been preserved at the time by freezing and the whole "corpse ride" thing precludes it as well. It's 100% certain he's dead. Noah lived 900 years? You really believe that? I suspect my understanding of probability and statistics is significantly better then yours but I also have a basic understanding of biology and a few other sciences. There are things that are 100% certain. Other things have a very low probability of happening but that doesn't mean everything does. Your statement about me not being much of a student comes out of left field. What makes you think that. Certainly your previous statements do nothing to support it.
    Several of us have tried. You've ignored our efforts so that means you are either a troll or willfully ignorant. Not much more we can do to help you. Best we can do is keep others from emulating you.


    So is it a lack of reading comprehension or just your trollish nature that causes you to put out straw men like this. Your type of revisionism is wrong because it's based on fallacy, opinion, and a distinct lack of logic. Where the positive form is based on facts and logic. It doesn't matter who does it it's a matter of how it's a matter of how it's done. By the way the Department of Education doesn't revise history books.

    Good that makes it almost certain I'm right.
     
  10. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    I didn't say it did did I? Of course you are using it as an excuse to do so but that's a different matter.
    It most certainly is not. Of course even referring to it as the "official take" is misleading.
    No. Your version made up things out of the whole cloth when the real events were well enough known to completely refute your claimes.
    No I'm saying your claims are wrong because they go against all the good hard evidence that we have. Even referring to them as the "governments take" is wrong as many of the items aren't part of any official record.
    Utterly absurd. You admitted that you lied and you did it intentionally. Now you are claiming your are "honest". It's not just a reading comprehension issue it's an English comprehension issue. Or your just a troll. Or both.
     
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  11. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    Kids these days.
     
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  12. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    I definitely do not need to disprove the official story it is up to the one who brings the claim to defend it. I am just here to argue for my claims.
    You do realize you just contradicted yourself don't you? You have made claims that are quite obviously counterfactual. It's up to you to support them. Some have supplied evidence that your claims are counterfactual and you've simply ignored it. Some have pointed out the vast logical holes in your claims and you've ignored it. You have demonstrated an incredible ignorance of history and claim to be a student.

    So your issue is that I just made a claim that are counterfactual to other claims thus its up to me to disprove other claims? Why isnt it the other claim are counterfactual to my claim thus they must prove how I am wrong? A claim is a claim weather its made by me or the USA.

    What is your issue with religious fanatics? If you have a theology I say follow it with conviction. Now the whole terrorist thing is just ridiculous even you know that.
    Seriously??? I guess this makes it clear. You are the enemy.

    Yeah seriously I do not look down on anyone who believes in their religion ... religiously that's what you have to do if you have a belief is live by it. And I am certainly not a terrorist I do not see how you ever came to that conclusion I will sum it up to a poorly placed insult.

    ]....
    Ok so Sid live a thousand years ago so again he is 99.9999% likely dead. But what if he was frozen and could be thawed out? Unlikely but possible. What if he like Noah lived over 900 years? Again unlikely yet very possible. Is your world view so very narrow you cannot even allow for the possibility of low probability things coming to fruition? Sounds like you are the one that is not much of a student.
    No, sorry you are way off base again. There's no way his body could have been preserved at the time by freezing and the whole "corpse ride" thing precludes it as well. It's 100% certain he's dead. Noah lived 900 years? You really believe that? I suspect my understanding of probability and statistics is significantly better then yours but I also have a basic understanding of biology and a few other sciences. There are things that are 100% certain. Other things have a very low probability of happening but that doesn't mean everything does. Your statement about me not being much of a student comes out of left field. What makes you think that. Certainly your previous statements do nothing to support it.

    All i know is while infinitely improbable it is still possible I do not want to debate theology here it is not the place nor do I think you can ever change my theological beliefs so it wouldnt benefit anyone as for history thats up for debate its not cut and dry. Again I am sure Sid is in fact dead but I willing to allow for the possibility because however infinitely small its possible. Another example is through faith or science he may have been resurrected. So now even if you saw him die its not possible to dismiss him possibly being alive. We are human we know almost nothing out there in all the knowledge we can never attain is an infinite cosmos of possibilities.

    Then enlighten me if you really believe with such conviction I am wrong do not let me stay a fool. Correct me, do not put me down reach out with your hand and pull me up.
    Several of us have tried. You've ignored our efforts so that means you are either a troll or willfully ignorant. Not much more we can do to help you. Best we can do is keep others from emulating you.

    Dont give up on me friend, I wont give up on you.

    So your tell me if you are wrong but your argument is that when I do its unofficial revisionism and its bad but when the department of education does it and targets America's children thats perfectly fine with you. Revisionism is cool as long as its state sanctioned?



    So is it a lack of reading comprehension or just your trollish nature that causes you to put out straw men like this. Your type of revisionism is wrong because it's based on fallacy, opinion, and a distinct lack of logic. Where the positive form is based on facts and logic. It doesn't matter who does it it's a matter of how it's a matter of how it's done. By the way the Department of Education doesn't revise history books.

    Red Hairing

    I forget what this was all about but my gut says you are wrong.
    Good that makes it almost certain I'm right.

    haha I was just being funny there but I did really forget what this point was all about.
     
  13. trustyoursources

    trustyoursources Member

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    My version of events is just as correct as the official take.
    It most certainly is not. Of course even referring to it as the "official take" is misleading.

    You think the text book story did not take educated guesses and make assumptions or skip over parts that they did not have evidence for plus the state has an agenda I am a truth seeker mine is 100% unbiased.

    My version made educated guesses on things I had knowledge gaps of so did the official story.
    No. Your version made up things out of the whole cloth when the real events were well enough known to completely refute your claimes.

    Well enough know by whom this is all just guess work you have just a fraction of the pieces for the puzzle and you have to just jumble em together till they fit the best they can but since you dont have all you have to draw a lot of your own to fill the gaps. Just like the "History PHD's" do it.

    Are you saying mine is wrong because my conclusions differ from the governments take?
    No I'm saying your claims are wrong because they go against all the good hard evidence that we have. Even referring to them as the "governments take" is wrong as many of the items aren't part of any official record.

    Good point I should refrain from saying that, sorry. I mean US public school Text book take specifically.

    . I feel like I have been very honest. I pried myself on my honesty.

    PS. I am not saying Im perfect or better then anyone just actively try to be honest.
    Utterly absurd. You admitted that you lied and you did it intentionally. Now you are claiming your are "honest". It's not just a reading comprehension issue it's an English comprehension issue. Or your just a troll. Or both.

    Embellishing and making truth better as well as doing educated guess work is not lying also revealing my creative process also proves I am transparent.
     
  14. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    Otto believes that his entire video is intended to be a hoax in order to wind us up.
     
  15. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    I believe Otto is 100% correct. (Just don't tell him I said that)
     
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  16. ColHessler

    ColHessler Member

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    Agreed.
     
  17. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I have my doubts, as he actually seems somewhat "normal" on some of the other forums that he has posted this to.

    He seems to be some Morpheus wanna-be and ends up the same way
     
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  18. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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  19. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Good find! Never came across that one.

    If that is him, then he is quite correct...Way to long for a joke, as most fail to watch even a few minutes of the video.

    I would expound upon this, as it is also way to "over the top" to keep s viewer's attention. He should also take note that even the Hysterical Channel at least has some basis in fact, whereas his video has none
     
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  20. KJ Jr

    KJ Jr Well-Known Member Patron  

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    It also solidifies that it's all BS. He threw it onto a WW2 forum just for kicks.
     
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