American Invasion

Very good. Still I say USN victory over KM.

 

Maybe it could be pulled off, after developing a large carrier supported navy, along with a sufficient merchant marine combined into an island-hopping campaign from the German occupied British Isles, over to Iceland, Greenland, Newfoundland, then to the US mainland proper, say around 1960 or so.

And that's not even mentioning the nuclear tipped V-2s....

 

Hello A-58,

If in the event of a Nazi victory (I wouldn't know how that should have happened ),
Chances IMO for the US to develop their own Nazi party to take over the US seems more likly to me, than a military confrontation between the US and Nazi Europe.

Anyway Rutger Hauer would know more about this then me

Regards
Kruska

 

Its a great question but for me logistics rules this out . If they couldnt cross the channel to invade Britain what chance across the "pond"?. The USA would have complete control over the air and sea and would sink anything coming its way

 

Any attempt to cross the Channel or the Atlantic would be far-fetched and ill-advised to say the least.

Yes, Rutger would be the best one to consult with on the matter!

 

It would spell doom for the KM and Germany itself. The USN would wage a naval war on German transports with submarines. Germany would not be able to land troops on the continent. If GB fell to the Axis, any remaining RN ships would flee to the United States to fight another day. That would further reinforce Allied naval strength. This invasion would not be logistically possible. German industry would not be able to keep up.

 

That's why I estimated no such operation by Germany until at least 1960. Really, there are too many variables in that scenario to correctly predict what will happen, much less the outcome of that campaign. Perhaps another thread in the "what if" forum? Who knows....

 

Very true. There are too many possible scenarios for this. If the Germans possibly had more allies? who knows.

 

dont be too sure on the brit fleet sailing to america usmc. Enough documented narratives exist some even churchills to put that oft repeated fable to bed. menzies king received suitable chastisement for his private talks on the matter in1940.it was far from a foregone conclusion that rn would sail away even.

 

This is no B.S. the Aussies are hard men. I wouldn't want to fight them. When I was in the Army (yes after 8 years and 9 months I got out of the Marine Corps and joined the Army) we went through a SERE course at Camp MacKall near Ft. Bragg NC with some Aussie SAS guys. If memory serves me correctly maybe six of them. At the end of the course we (all SF and Ranger types) drug our worn out butts and gear onto trucks for the ride back to Bragg. I held my hand out to help this little, pale, skinny, red headed, freckeled Australian Lt. up in the truck and he looked up at me and said "No thanks mate, we're rucking back". I couldn't believe it, I never would have guessed from looking at him that he was such a physical stud. I don't know how far it was back to Bragg but it was at least 25-30 miles. Up till then they'd pretty much stayed to themselves, quiet, competant, professional men, never talking trash about how good they were or bragging on themselves. They let their abilities speak for them.

While in the Marine Corps I had the opportunity to port in Australia a couple of times and pull liberty, during my two WestPac floats. I also flew there on leave once, when I was stationed on Okinawa, I really liked the people. Thought they were great. So some time after the Camp Mackall incident, I used this to strike up a conversation with a couple of the Australians and we got on friendly terms. A couple of times several of us went out drinking with them. After quite a few beers and around people they considered friends their tongues loosened up a bit and they could tell some whoppers. Well, on second thought based on their demonstrated abilities it might have all been true, who knows, who cares. Anyway, they were some pretty cool guys.

 

menzies king ?
sorry urgh you got to help me on that one - if you have the time

Anyway in regards to this fabulous thread. One should not forget that in a 1960 scenario it wouldn't be Germany vers. USA, but NAZI Europe against USA.
So chances in economic and military matters might not look very good for the USA. Is Japan still involved? since Hitler seems to have made it through to 1960.

The RN would propably be engaged in British colonial interests and wars, rather then steaming over to the US and neglecting safe passage and secured recoures for vital tea shipments from Ceylon.

Regards
Kruska

 

I don't believe that the RN and other allied forces in exile would give up. I still think they would flee to fight another day into allied occupied territories.

 

If I might
William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada 1938-46

In the summer of 1940 Roosevelt feared that the Royal Navy might fall to the Germans, to avoid this he wanted the Royal Navy dispersed throughout the Empire, and he asked King to convey this message to Churchill, which he did. However Churchill was infuriated by Roosevelt's assumption that Britain would fall, and King was told in no uncertain terms that this wasn't going to happen.

Re: the What if;

To have any hope of success in any invasion of the USA, Hitler would need the full support of the RN, and the only way I can see this happening was if in May 1940 Churchill had lost the discussion in the British War Cabinet over whether to continue in the war or not, and this caused the collapse of the government, and eventually a pro-Nazi government came into power and decided that Britain's interests lay with supporting the Nazi cause

 

Bearing in mind the amount of USA business interests in Germany and the historical link between USA and GB all of the above would have been very unlikely i.e. a German attack on mainland USA supported by GB.

 

Hello redcoat,

Long time no see

Thanks for the help - I didn't know about this occurence - thanks a lot

Regards
Kruska

 

I don't think the amount of business interests between Germany and the USA would influence Hitler too much if he considered the threat the USA might pose his Greater German Reich too great to ignore.
As for historical links, Britain and the Germanic States until almost the start of the First World War were considered natural allies, while relations between the USA and Britain in the same period ranged from distrustful to outright dislike.

 

Don't know about the US & UK really dis-liking each other up till WW1. The two were actually more like feuding brothers . Remember that after 1850 the boundaries between the US & Canada were pretty much settled so there really wasn't too much to feud over. Further by the late 1800's the UK had pretty much withdrawn militarily speaking from North America so if there was so much dis-like between the US & UK why would the UK more or less abandon the Western Atlantic? The British were certainly more worried about the buildup of the Kaiser's fleet then the USN. Now the US and Germany from say the 1880's to 1918 was certainly a feud ,remember the Kaiser threatening to land a million soldiers in New York in 1901?

 

Relations were tense, at least through the US Civil War, and for a decade or so afterwards. Britain sympathized with the Confederacy openly, and the US and UK came to the brink of war in 1862 over the Trent Affair. Britain sent troops to Canada in preparation for a land war in America. Later, rampaging CSN commerce raiders were built and furnished by the UK, and after the war, the US demanded and received reparations for damages caused by those commerce raiders. I think that the British considered the US a nuisance more than a threat since it was much farther away than the growing threat of a newly unified Germany. The incident at Fashoda in 1898 (with the French) later gave Britain the opportunity to concentrate on Germany. And in my opinion, after the US victory over Spain in the Spanish-American War, the British gained a little respect towards the US. Not much, but just a little. Maybe a little less contempt....

 

Actually the Trent Affair was just a tad bit over-blown. The UK was getting rich selling arms to both the CSA & the Union so didn't want to stop that. Lincoln & Seward regardless of the latter's bold statements basically wanted to concentrate on the affairs occuring at home & basically both sides came around where both could salvage some honor.

However we're getting well off subject here..so if we are to discuss this even farther we probably need to go to the free-fire zone.

 

Yes, off-subject a bit and tying up loose ends, but over here, and especially up north, the Yankees were concerned a great deal over the Trent Affair and the possibility of recognition of the Confederacy by Britain and France, and their intervention into the war. Lincoln wanted to avoid that at all costs.

Now, where were we before this little detour? Something about the US getting invaded by a Nazified Europe around 1960 or so....