An open letter to all re-enactors of Waffen SS units

I agree Michelle. So far none. Especially the poster in question.

 

Michelle, scroll back a few pages and you will see my answer (as a former SS re-enactor).

Erich, interesting point. I think however that it misses one key element, it isn't about opening old wounds, re-enactment (as a tool of education) isn't aimed at veterans and people who were there but at the participants and the current generation, people who do not have any wounds to open.

ED: Incidentally, as an alternative slant on this, why do people make models of SS troops and vehicles? Surely computer games which allow one to play as the Germans and mow down wave after wave of Allied soldiers are equally reprehensible?

 

This has been asked of miniature wargamers also quite a few times. I have seen in a few forums where people have been asked why they game as Germans or Waffen SS.

 

What was the answer?

 

Well for some the point was made that they do not game them as commiting atrocities or crimes. It is more abstractand pure to them.There is no shooting of prisoners too.And that it is purely in a war or battle situation that they are used. Also no civilians involved. Now for the First person shooter type video games that may be totally different but usually in miniature gaming it isn't a one on one type of scenario. Depends on what scale you use too. Quite a few are from squad level on up. For example 1/285th-1/300th scale are of that type that are platoon on up.

 

On the TMP there is quite a long thread on "Why the Germans?" for one.


[TMP] "Why the Germans?" Topic

 

So what you are saying is that (to them) because it is impersonal it is ok? I.e. because they are portraying a unit rather than individuals it is ok?

Similarly though, re-enactors don't portray atroceties etc very often (and when they do the repercussions are usually massive), most only portray 'combat soldiers' and so on.

 

To some of them? Yes. I would suggest you check out the thread I linked to. I for one do not portray any Waffen SS units in my gaming. And you are right it is very much more impersonal. More so the a First Person Shooter and Reenacting. A lot of the wargames are more Strategic and Tactical based.

 

Which does of course raise the question of whether being impersonal changes it from an ethical point of view? I'm not sure it does, after all, pushing a button which kills someone is impersonal but morally is little different from stabbing them. The difference is simply in ones mind.

 

Stefan I think the vets in my post would take incredible offense if allowed to view the re-enactment due to personal reasons and those inflicted on them and those they fought. And yes I can see the typical no-wounds shown or felt, no-body really dies in the pursuance of the re-enactment although in many cases trying to protray real events. Guess we need to look and actually be thankful that for nearly all the younger set in these modern roles have never seen combat in the realist sense, it might take one then to reflect.

 

Erich, I definately understand your point, but surely it is their choice whether to view or not. As Mr Goldstein said, he wouldn't attend an event because it isn't his scene and presumably doesn't interest him. I remember hearing a veteran complain about the Holocaust exhibition in the IWM, his main complaint was that it brought up old wounds for no good reason. Surely however teaching younger generations about what went on is a reason itself, of course it brings back things for people who were there, but does that mean we should forget it or censor portrayal of it? I'm not sure it does.

Incidentally it is often interesting to see how many former soldiers end up re-enacting, guys who have seen combat in some of the grimmer modern conflicts. Interesting phenomanon, particularly seeing how they react when people re-enact the Gulf war or Operation Iraqi Liberation (they are out there).

 

funny in some sense we in the US gladly re-enact the Civil War battles of our history and granted none of the veterans of that age are with us anymore. Question does this put our more modern ideas at ease, does it bother us that we still have WW 2 age veterans still amongst us ? I cannot say for certain as I do not participate in the re-enactments. I do believe history needs to be learned and shared but through this type of medium ?? ...... Again I cannot say with 100 % satisfaction

 

I suspect the issue is deeper than we realise, it is pretty easy to stand and look at a uniform on a dummy and read a speil about who wore it, how they were a member of X unit who did this, that and the other. It is very impersonal and abstracted so pretty easy to deal with. I think the problem people have with re-enacting is that when you put a person in that uniform you are brought face to face with a very sad reality, that you aren't dealing with uniforms and names on a sheet of paper but people, people who suffered and people who caused suffering. I think that for many when the reality is brought out on this level all of a sudden it becomes very uncomfortable; most can deal with the idea of the SS as monsters, less easy to deal with them as human beings.

As an aside, it is interesting to compare WW2 re-enacting to other periods. English Civil War re-enactors over here frequently chant anti-Catholic slogans when they march, sing appropriate songs and preach mock sermons. If German re-enactors were to do something similar there would be hell to pay. Similarly Dark Ages re-enactors have been known to re-enact the killing of wounded on the battlefield after a victory whilst US Civil War re-enactors have been known to occaisionally portray slaves etc (though not often). Why is this acceptable? Well, clearly the issue is simply time, there are no veterans of those conflicts, they are beyond living memory and so people don't care. Is this right? I'm not sure, but it is worrying because potentially it means that in 50 years time we could see re-enactments of POW executions, Nazi rallys and so on. Now that would be taking things a step too far.

 

I know that here in the US there are a few Vietnam war reenactors. I wonder if there is any people who portray the North Vietnamese or VC?

 

A very interesting discussion with some great posts that i have read in detail, but to go slightly off topic i just don't get the reenacting thing regarding modern wars.

Ancient history / civil war British and American etc etc i can understand as you can't be part of those armies or that history anymore, but a load of fat blokes and young lads running around in uniforms playing soldiers from whichever modern Army for a few hours at a time whats that about ???

I go all over Europe with many veterans groups most of whom are baffled by reenactors , in Normandy every D Day the place is full of them mostly Dutch ,Belgians and French wanting to play Americans.

As an ex soldier with many mates still going to Afghanistan and Iraq we seem to be a bit short on the ground and under strength so come you reenactors "if you want to play a soldier join the Army and do it for real. "

The above is a quote from some 151 Brigade DLI Vets to some British reenactors in Normandy this year and i must admit i go along with this view,

regards

Paul

 

Will there be any Iraq or Gulf war reenactors in the coming years?

 

Erich says:

This is a little like a stranger asking someone pushing a disabled person's wheelchair "Does he take sugar ?"

As the person responsible for posing the original question I would like to remind everyone that the question was and is genuine and I really would like someone to honestly explain to me the reason he or she would wish to portray a member of the SS.

I would close by reminding all the friends I have made here that the price that all WW2 Forums have to pay for having vets aboard is that we reserve the right to ask bloody awkward questions.

Regards

Ron

 

I have no problem with you asking Ron . You can ask as much as you want .

 

Agreed. You, Sir, have the place of honor here.:S!

 

I think its a reasonable question Ron. And it has enlisted quite a few views and opinions.