Anything by Max Hastings!

No it wasn't Hastings, it was "JeffinMNUSA" in post #15 who used that term.

 

That'll teach me to reopen old threads.

 

Forgive me for reading the thread, but Jeff said:

He didn't say 'Political Dunce', or 'Leadership Dunce', or 'man-management dunce', or 'public speaking dunce', or 'rabble-rousing dunce'... just "Strategic dunce", as many have said before, and will say again. Quite justifiably in a broad range of cases.
Was thinking of that 'Hitler, the allies' greatest General' 'quote' - (and now wonder who coined that first, by the way?)

Anyway... Back to Hastings - cheers for the heads-up on the new book, Martin.
Hadn't noticed this one at all, and I've not read his last couple (couple? - think Armageddon was the last I read). Might have to give it a go, as I'm rather intrigued at Hastings poking about in 'The Ost'... Could be quite entertaining.

~A

 

Poop...

How many more generals this period are going to blame Adolf for their own failings?

Churchill wasn't exactly a strategic genius. In fact, he seemed to habitually make the wrong choices, and then follow it up with slavish excuse mongering to cover his own tracks. But, his generals were not in the habit of making excuses to cover their own lack of brilliance. So, Churchill gets the nod, while Hitler cops it sweet?

Doesn't sound historically valid to me. Ive read one too many a lengthy tome from Reich generals, seeking to push all of their errors in a direction other than at their own feet. And to blame a dead man, however demonic he may be, is worse from a personal point of view.

Do you believe everything these people wrote?
I certainly don't.

 

I'll be first in the line to point out many German 'Staff' memoirs read like a rather stilted version of Shaggy's 'It wasn't me'...
But criticism of Adolf's strategic grasp is hardly entirely German in origin, that would seem to be placing an interpretation on what I said that simply isn't there.
I read it again as that puzzled me, and it seems I indeed didn't say that all errors were his... that would be daft.

Grand strategy is what wins the overall game in this war; effective CoS arrangements, Materiel, Cause and effect of actions over massively varied theatres, long-term planning, an understanding of when to retreat and when to attack, compromise, understanding of resources and the state of play on the ground, conservation of said resources, knowing which leaders to promote and which to remove, delegation etc. etc.

Alanbrooke had Strategic sense in Spades, Marshall had buckets of the stuff to slosh about (to name but two significant strategicians).
By comparison, Adolf, who tried to fulfil the same role as well as being the political leader, was indeed not of the highest order (In fact, I'd go so far as to say the amount of 'last bullet' orders from that particular figurehead is all I need to think of in terms of strategic failure really - that alone condemns him on a fair few occasions.)

Again though, wasn't this about Hastings?

~A

 

sorry yes...off topic. My bad.

Please resume....
i'll have to re-read Hastings 'Bomber Command" just to have something relevant to say...ahem...sorry.

 

Martin;
Thanks! I think the new Hastings history is being released under a different name over here across the pond; Amazon.com: Inferno: The World at War, 1939-1945 (9780307273598): Max Hastings: Books CAN'T WAIT!
"Hitler a strategic dunce" I think is a fair estimation of the man with some of his disasterous "last man and last bullet" orders while on the defensive. There were also his brutal occupation policies which only served to alienate potential allies and spawn resistance movements.
JeffinMNUSA

 

( Lashed to the wheel, struggling grimly to stay on topic.... )

The new Hastings has been released with surprisingly little 'fanfare' ( no interviews, previews, etc ) and I saw it this morning in a Waterstones bookstore.

I may be terribly unfair here, but I wasn't convinced......true, I only had time for a swift flick-through ; it seemed to me a little 'thin'. It's based mainly on first-hand accounts and experiences and is split into sections such as 'Britain Alone' etc. I just wasn't sure that it would add much at all to what I already know.

Anyhow - I wasn't going to pay £30 ( which now seems to be the new benchmark price for such books - same as was for Kershaw's The End.) Anyhow, I shall wait and see what the reviewers say, and Amazon are already offering a 40% discount.....)

 

Maybe they've finally got bored with the standard procedure with a new Hastings book? Which always seemed to be:
Pick out the most controversial possible statements from new book, without any context whatsoever, and throw them raw to the non-history press.
I always found that a tad tiresome, but suspected it might be the instincts of an old Newspaper man in action...

£30 for a standard format Hardback?! I haven't been paying attention to that part of the market, have I. Blimey, I shall wait until I see it for a few quid in the Amazon leftovers bin.

I'd still read him any-day over Beevor though, when in the mood for their kind of book - Hastings has never made me drop off to sleep every second page....

~A

 

Yep - what were until recently £20/£25 books are suddenly £30.......

 

I'm starting to think that Hastings 'All Hell Let Loose' could be the Great Missing Hastings Title.....it's been in the shops for a fortnight but I've only seen one review . That was by Andrew Roberts in the FT and was a little odd....he's critical of Hastings' denigration of the US Forces and to a lesser degree British, while apparently being over-laudatory of the Germans. Despite this, goes on to describe it as Hastings' masterpiece.

There aren't even any reviews yet on Amazon. Odd, when compared to the media onslaught which accompanied Kershaw's recent The End.

So - I shan't be rushing out to add this one to my collection......

 

Martin;
"Masterpiece"??!! And on that note I just preordered mine, though it's called "Inferno" over here and not for release until NOV 1. Why the silence on this one? Well it would seem that Sir Max is once again being a bit too controversial...
JeffinMNUSA
PS. Let the evidence lead where it may. http://www.joinhistorybookclub.com/...books/inferno-by-max-hastings-1073367819.html http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/inferno-max-hastings/1100054419

 

I pre-ordered 'my' copy from the local library and its here already...in fact my county library system already has 76 copies on their shelves....quite mind-boggling really in these straitened times

 

Most of my local libraries have just been closed....but that's O/T......

 

a couple of quotes from the new book (just to keep the thread ticking over ..)

" while Hitler's army often fought its battles brilliantly , the Nazis conducted their war effort with stunning incompetence.."

and on "denigration" of US forces...sentences such as this one ......perhaps

" the industrial contribution of the US was much more important to Allied victory than that of the US army ...the US armed forces suffered a death rate of just five per thousand men enlisted ..most of these suffered perils no worse than that of civilians at home...over 100,000 American factory workers lost limbs in industrial accidents during the war compared to just 17,000 US servicemen who became amputees as a result of combat...."

 

I was lucky enough to meet Sir Max this weekend at a local book festival and chat with him briefly (while he wrote a long dedication!)

the aim with this book was primarily to "write things that people wouldn't necessarily know about WWII", to dig out the more obscure sources for the material and to present as wide a range of experiences as possible.

as for the £30 cover price, WH Smiths still have it on offer for a few more days at 50% off...

 

I am a 250 pp into this account and am not dissappointed-just into the early Pacific War and it is interesting that some peoples of the British colonial empire actually welcomed the Japanese and how completely the Colonial forces disintegrated. Sir Max also has a rather poor opinion of Douglas MacArthur. ALSO-and this had not heard-the Japanese Army of WWII was not the "kinder,gentler" Imperial Army of 1905. Doctrine and brutal experience had turned them into an atrocity prone military force. JefffinMNUSA

 

Hi all;
Yes this is a masterpiece-a global exploration of the conflagation with terse examinations of some little known corners of the World at War. Famines are not glorious events but Sir Max delves into the various disasters that befell mankind during this period of time. It is interesting that the author cites Churchill's decision not to send aid to the Bengali famine as the cause of the eventual British loss of India. The author also uses some new sources to telling effect; for example there was the American account of some German aristocrats who ran a camp of slave laborers on their estate. When the Americans commented about the abyssmal conditions the slaves labored under, the aristocrats countered that these people were animals and had to be treated as such. Hastings also uses quotes from the recently discovered secret notebooks of Vasily Grossman-in my opinion the best first hand accounts of this or any war. Our Russian friends might find Sir Max's torturous details of Red Army atrocities objectionable-but these excesses are well documented. Another telling account is on the Berlin subway; people were discussing what would happen once the Russians arrived when a decorated veteran spoke up- "If they behave as we did there will be no Germans left." The subway riders fell silent. If I have any criticisms of Hastings it is that he-like many conventional military men- undervalues the contributions of the various resistance movements. 35 German divisions tied down in Jugoslavia alone? Even if they were second rate divisions these are significant numbers! And wasn't it second rate divisions that were giving the Allies such headaches on the Rhine? Ah well, in all an excellent read-and here finally is some recognition of the heroic part the Polish fighters played in the Royal Armed Forces-as well as recognition of the suffering and heroism of the whole Polish nation.
JeffinMNUSA