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Australia to spend $270b building larger military

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by CAC, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I know the British were weak in the air & at sea. However, they also had their strengths. Just as the Argentians also had their strengths & weaknesses.

    Did the AIM-9L win the war by itself, no. However, it made the British job much easier. Would the Argentinians have won the war with better bombs? Had the British had more ships sunk with a corresponding heavier loss of life...Maybe. Higher warship losses certainly would have giving British politicians pause with continuing the war. Further, heavier warship losses would have made attacking the more strategically valuable transports a much easier task.

    Where, at any point in this discussion did I say the British were "lazy" or "no good". That is only you reading in your own preconceived notion of British weakness. FYI, there is much more to "weakness" than being lazy & no good.

    Of the British were "strong" then why were so many of their ships sunk or damaged?

    If the British were "strong" then why did the fail to prevent most Argentinian aircraft from conducting their attacks?
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Back to the Australians....

    The Navy is getting some very nice new toys. The Attack class is there, as well as the new Hunter frigates(nice addition - they have the firepower of modern destroyers & displacement of a WW2 light cruiser). The next big ticket addition is a large investment in maritime guided weapons. The money drops of rapidly after these big three. The standard upgrades & additions to various systems.

    Although, i am surprised to the much maligned Collins class funded for Life of Type extension beyond 2040. Looks like it will take a good bit of time to start bringing the Attack class into service.
     
  3. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    And then find people to man it...maybe AI in the next ten years may improve that...
     
  4. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    There is to be a more detailed personnel growth plan presented to the Government in 2021. The plan is going to be a larger increase than agreed to in the 2016 White Paper. An initial increase of the ADF by 800+/- & the APS by 250 +/- is expected to suffice for the short term needs, with additional growth in the Australian Signals Directorate.
     
  5. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Ohhh..$5b-7.4b for an Australian SOSUS(2025-2040+)! Me likee that.
     
  6. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    you said they were weak--did you not?
    Definition of WEAK
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Odd...your link to the definition of "weak" does not list "lazy" or "no good" as a synonym for "weak". Are you certain that is the correct link you wanted to use? Or are you now citing sources that do not support your contention.

    Yes, the CAP was weak was it not?
    The Type 42s were weak against low altitude targets was it not?
    The AEW was non-existent was it not?

    You still have not answered how the "strong" British forces allowed for so many ships to be sunk or damaged.

    You still have not answered how the "strong" British failed to prevent the majority of Argentinian aircraft sorties from being carried out.

    Answers please...
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  8. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    At the time a huge Australian/kiwi band 'Split Enz' brought out a song "Six months in a leaky boat" - Nothing to do with the Falklands but was banned in the UK anyway...not good for public morale or something or other...



    and this one for Poppy...I think he'd dig this.

    <iframe width="667" height="500" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    Poppy and Takao like this.
  9. Takao

    Takao Ace

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  10. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    Hmmm...seems most of the approaches are covered...I would have thought it would cover the approaches to Perth...and perhaps another on the eastern side down the Queensland coast...Both sides are used by Australian subs. There are several areas that a sub must pass through to get to the South China Sea or to get back to Australia that are REALLY shallow...so much so that a sub can be seen passing through these areas from an aircraft...I would be putting plenty of sensors and weapons in these areas for a start.
    (Reminds me of the AE2, an Australian sub in WW1...it had to travel down a narrow pass (Dardanelles Strait) to get to the Sea...artillery and machine guns on both sides...the AE2 made it's way up this pass and was seen...had it's radio aerial shot off...so it was unable to radio base when it did reach the Sea (of Marmara from memory) - So we all thought she had bought the farm...but instead was ripping it up in the Sea of Mamara!)

    HMAS AE2 (WW1)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  11. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    oh yes. still have this album on tape.
    great music.
    didnt know the story.
    thanks ace.
     
  12. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    You are so cool having that album mate! You may already know, the guitarist is the singers brother...the Finn brothers...the guitarist will go on to found 'Crowded House' and become signifcantly richer than his brother...
     
  13. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    answer = Brits won .....you expect no losses in a war?
     
  14. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    You have said TF58 was strong in the Marianas Turkey Shoot. How many ships did TF58 have sunk in the Turkey shoot?

    Of course, TF58 had significantly more fighters, not to mention aircraft in general, than the British did in the Falklands.
     
  15. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    are you replying to me?? hahaha
    ...you are comparing TF58 to the British force at the Falklands??!!!!!??? a ''little'' difference there, don't you think? and the Turkey Shoot to the Falklands' air battles??!!! WOW!
     
  16. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Both were strong according to you...So there should be only be minimal difference between the two. Don't ya think.
     
  17. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    wow--just wow...those two battles/etc are no where close to comparison
    --Exocets vs WW2 bombing/etc!!
    --large naval forces vs tiny naval forces---what was it? 2 carriers vs 15 carriers?? etc
    --open sea warfare vs restricted area
    --total unrestricted war [ WW2 ] vs restricted [ Falklands ]
    ..that's just for starters
     
  18. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    But, you said the British were "STRONG".

    Now...You are agreeing with me that the RN was "WEAK".

    Thank you.

    Also, TF58 fought in a restricted area...Spruance kept it tied to the invasion beaches remember.
     
  19. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    ok--I agreed they were weak--HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH....what have you been drinking?

    from page 19 of the same book:
    '''.......Thatcher announced that a strong naval force was to set sail for the South Atlantic....''''
    ..it then details the forces
    bold mine

    ....sorry Charlie:
    1. there was an Exclusion Zone in the Falklands--no exclusion zone at the Turkey Shoot
    2. here--T58 was not in a bay, closed in = restricted space and exclusion zone
     
  20. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Sorry Charlie...
    What does an "exclusion zone" have to do with whether or not the RN is strong?

    2. Where were the carriers? They were not in a bay. They were not even laying off the islands. The carriers stayed well away from the islands, so they would not be exposed to air attack. But, that did not stop the Argentinians from trying to get at the carriers.
     

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