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Bali Bombing

Discussion in 'Free Fire Zone' started by Kiwi Ace, Oct 13, 2002.

  1. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Sadly, you're probably right.

    The effective methods seem to be those used by the SAS in Northern Ireland and the Israelis following the Munich Olympics massacre.
     
  2. Friedrich

    Friedrich Expert

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    Carl, di the Viet Kong show themselves in battle? I don't think so... Bamboo traps and hidden snipers is not exactly showing themselves in battle... :confused:
     
  3. Knight Templar

    Knight Templar Miserable Cretin

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    Right. Vietnam.
    It's much more "manly" to pulverise them with B-52s, napalm, and agent orange.
    Jungle fighting is always the same: it requires a lot of close combat and hand-to-hand fighting.
     
  4. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Friedrich--the V.C. did show themselves in many battles--one big one that comes to mind is the Battle of the Ia Drang Valley. Dien Bien Phu was another--but for the Frainch--and they then were known as Viet Minh.
     
  5. Panzerknacker

    Panzerknacker New Member

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    Carl-the VC didn't fight in the Battle of the Ia Drang Valley-not in 1965, nor 1966, nor 1967. It was hardcore regular NVA.

    Ok-latest conspiracy. The C4 consistent with US military use has landed the actual US in hot water. Conspiracy goes that the US bombed an Australian tourist hotspot-ie Bali-to get support for the war against terror!!!
     
  6. Ron

    Ron Member

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    Doesn't everyone use the same basic CF? All i say to that conspiracy is :rolleyes:
    The only thing that surprises me most is that Knight didn't bring it up!
     
  7. Sniper

    Sniper Member

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    Actually C4 is a common military explosive around the world. A lot of Western/Westernised countries use it. A bit like Semtex was in the old Eastern Block.

    However, like everything else, when you break it down under analysis you can actually tell where it was made (and sometimes when) just by minor differences in the make-up. Moisture content, stuff like that.

    A bit like buying a can of beans from the same manufacturer once a week. If you broke the beans/sauce down you could tell which week the can was produced in just by the minor variances although they would probably taste the same. Wonders of modern science.

    And if I recall right, the 1968 Tet Offensive was the Viet Cong's biggest full scale attack. That's when they invaded the streets of Saigon and other provvincial cities. The US government got a major shock and (incorrectly) the western media saw it as a major victory for the VC. In actual fact, the VC were mauled so badly by US and South Vietnamese forces during the attack and following few days, they never actually recovered fully right up until the fall of the South. A lot of their operations were taken over by North Vietnamese regulars.

    You'll all have seen the camera footage of the VC being shot in the head, right in full view of the media. He was dressed as an ordinary civilian and you see his body fall to the street and blood coming from the wound. That was the '68 Tet Offensive.

    The guy who shot him was a senior South Vietnamese officer. He had been at the US Embassy when he was told that the VC had attacked his home. When he and his men arrived, they found that the VC had butchered his wife, his children and his Sister in Law. The VC who was shot was captured in the house.... I would have done the same.

    I would do the same right now if I was in Bali and one of those (Blank, Blank, Blank) terrorists was standing in front of me.

    War is nasty, violent and vicious. You expect to be killed in war. You don't expect to be killed when you're having a drink and a dance in a nightclub. And you're not at war.

    _______________

    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
    - Plato (427-347 B.C.)
     
  8. Panzerknacker

    Panzerknacker New Member

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    Knight-what's with flying the flag upside-down?
     
  9. AndyW

    AndyW Member

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    Are you really sure about this story? AFAIK, the man shooting the handcuffed Vietcong with the plaid shirt during the Tet-offensive Feb. 1968 was the South Vietnamese Birgadier General Nguyen Ngoc Loan.

    The idea that Loan's wife was killed by this particular Vietcong or even at all is rubbish. But it seem true that the Vietcong killed or injured some of Loan's men.

    Oriana Fallaci interviewed the injured Loan in May 1968. His wife and father were sitting next to him.

    Fallaci's book "Nothing and Amen" deals in-depth with this time period, the incident and the person of General Loan. Very recommended reading.

    Cheers,
     
  10. AndyW

    AndyW Member

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    The most succesful methods of stopping, preventing and eliminating terrorist dangers weren't military at all.

    Any cent put into the current military complex to buy more superweapons is a waste. The money should be used instead to finance WORKING anti-terror-"weapons" like effective Intelligence and security services and systems, the policemen around the corner, long-termed measurements like eliminating immanent symphathies for terrorist acts among those "have-nots", or the desire for taking revenge.

    If I'd be living in the ME and a F-16 is dropping a bomb on my house, killing my family, I'd know what to do next. Hate, unjustice, lack of education and povery are the best fertilizers for terrorism.

    Cheers,
     
  11. Knight Templar

    Knight Templar Miserable Cretin

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    Israel has the most effective method by far; it's called the Mossad. Especially in the Middle East, the Mossad has successfully infiltrated every significant military organization. Israel knows what's going to happen weeks before it actually does (and sometimes, they can even make it happen.)
    Australia?
    First of all, Bush and Blair look quite the fools, standing alone against the unseen forces of Evil. Getting another country to cooperate would have made things look a lot better. The problem with Australia was that the public was almost universally opposed to Bush's War on Terror. Finally, after much arm twisting, their government half-heartedly threw in their support. It was shortly after this that the bombing occurred. Now... you can go either way with this. The true believers will maintain that the Muslim extremists decided to lash out immediately at the War On Terror's newest ally. The conspiracy crowd says that the explosion was used to prove to the doubtful Australian population that the International Terror Network actually does exist and is targeting all member of "The Alliance."
    Once again, we have a huge explosion for which no one takes credit for. Add it to the growing list: 9-11, OKC bombing, The Cole, The London "Mega-Bombs..." Generally, terrorists can't wait to take credit for attacks against their enemies. I mean, back in the good-old-days, you couldn't find the culprit because everyone would take credit for the attack.
    I'm still reading about the Bali blast.
     
  12. Jumbo_Wilson

    Jumbo_Wilson Member

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    Knight

    Al Quaeda have never phoned up and claimed credit for their attacks: they don't need to. Their aim is to terrorise Westerners. You don't need to say who you are in order to do this. The bomber we had in London who blew up the Admiral Duncan never claimed his successes either, all he wanted to do was to terrorise Blacks, Asians and Gays. The irony was he managed to kill a young married couple and their best man instead.

    Jumbo
     
  13. CrazyD

    CrazyD Ace

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    Jumbo, I was going to mention this, but I wasn't sure. Have Al-Quaeda ever claimed responsibility for one of their attacks? Other than the non-commital ramblings of Bin-Laden and Al-Zawahiri, I can't think of an instance where they did... Especially not in the fashion of other, past terrorist groups- the immediate phone call following the attack.
     
  14. Jumbo_Wilson

    Jumbo_Wilson Member

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    Crazy

    No I don't think they have, particularly because they tend to work through proxies. Also it allows the waters to be muddied by blaming the Israelis, The CIA or our old friend Woodrow Wilson...

    Jumbo
     
  15. Ron

    Ron Member

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    i think i would believe the people from these forums who are actually from Australia to get a good indication of Australia's support for the war on terror. How was it before Bali?
     
  16. CrazyD

    CrazyD Ace

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    Come on, Ron- Knight clearly knows more about how the Australians feel than anyone actually from Australia. What are you thinking?
    :D :rolleyes: :D

    Jumbo, that's the impression I had. I wonder though- you might know this one- we have seen many "interviews" with Bin Laden etc. that show up on Al-Jazeera. What kinds of claims have they made in those interviews? I think I remember Bin Laden kind of suggesting that he was in fact responsible, but has there ever been any outright claims of responsibility?

    And just wait- you gents may think I'm Crazy, but before long we'll all have a new "pledge of allegiance"- allegiance to the great undying Woodrow and his army of illiterate right wing zombies.

    OK, maybe I am Crazy. :D
     
  17. Knight Templar

    Knight Templar Miserable Cretin

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    Jumbo:

    .
    uhhh... yes... you do, really.
    this would really mark a new era in terrorism: the crimes of the anonymous bombers.
    I do not assume Al Quiada is to blame every time a big bomb goes off: call me a conspiracy theorist, but, I'd just like to see a little evidence, or else, someone taking responsibility for the attack.
    I mean... were they behind the London bombs?
    Some people are claiming they were responsible for the OKC Bombing for God's sake.
    If you're not looking for any evidence, then, you can really take this as far as you want.
    .
     
  18. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Hi Ryan, VC did fight in Ia Drang--I have a good friend who served there and was in that battle--Gary Hatley. He captured a Russian Tokerov off the VC that he killed--along with an AK-47--both guns he still has. [​IMG]

    Knight--ill ask again since I never recieved a reply to another question I asked you. Whats the purpose? Just wondering? Carl. [​IMG]

    [ 18 October 2002, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]
     
  19. Knight Templar

    Knight Templar Miserable Cretin

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    Carl:
    [​IMG]
    Years ago, this image stood for the Constitutuion, the Bill of Rights, The Declaration of Independence, and all the other ideas, laws, and documents which defined the USA.
    These days, the image has come to mean an unquestioning belief in the current political administration.
    [​IMG]
    Years ago, this image was a symbol of distress, although it is rarely used so today. In consideration of the flag's current purpose: to identify political "believers," the inverted flag stands for the American who does not believe everything put out by the current political administration. In fact, I don't believe anything the politicians have to say (I know I'm really shocking everybody here.)
    I believe that today's politicians are thoroughly corrupt and serve no one's interests but their own and the forces of the wealthy and powerful.
    That's the general idea...
     
  20. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Thank you for the detailed reply. I hope you were not offended by my inquiry here or on the other posting I made. ;) I made another posting to Ryan when he asked the same question and I had not heard from you on it yet. I forget what topic that was in though.
     

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