Battle of the Bulge: What took them so long?

Also the region itself is actually quite big

 

I also read somewhere that it was the time Monty thought it would take to get them going which prevented him from going into action before Patton. Also, didn't the Germans attack the American lines only? The British were farther North anways.

 

Thanks!!
I'll add that to the list!!

 

The Waffen-SS and Heer Panzer and Panzergrenadier units that were deployed in the Ardennes were of abysmal quality compared to their former selves. They had suffered catastrophic losses in Normandy and the Falaise pocket (and the Eastern front) with their veteran Officer/NCO ranks decimated. Most assault infantrymen only had some rushed basic training, little more than a month or two.

They were also poorly equipped, with a lot of their mechanized/motorized transport missing. They also suffered around 1/3rds shortfall in tank strength with unsuitable assault guns sometimes replacing Panzers.

All the Units involved in the Ardennes offensive were only rated Kampfwert III/IV (only suitable for defensive actions) except for elements of the 2nd Panzer division which held a (II).

 

The actual combat power is relatively deceptive as well, since in many formations (the SS ones as well), a very large portion of barely trained troops (1/3rd of total battalion strength in many places, like the 1st-SSLAH) were held in reserve and not committed unless for emergency action.

I honestly don't understand how they held out like they did. They should've been swept away much sooner.

 

Yes and no. Yes, all the older units lost a lot of their experienced soldiers but manpower was scrapped from all over to bring them up manpower wise as well as weapons. The quality may not have been as good as before but they were not inept. The units which were disappointing were the volkstrum divisions.

As for "all of the units" rating panzer mk III/IVs, well that is incorrect. The King Tiger made it's appearance in the west during this offensive.


Panthers were also used. But don't write off the Mk IV. It was still a considerable foe in the West.

The men were well armed. The difficiencies were in fuel and in ammo. In this case, Hitler fell for his own propaganda if he expected to go all the way to Antwerp because there was no way he could have succeeded with the logistics available to his forces.

More info here: http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/7-8/7-8_CONT.htm

 

No, their performance was generally much inferior to their counterparts in Normandy and a far cry from 1943. A world away from 1941.

I have detailed interviews with all the major players in the Ardennes Offensive- Dietrich (6th Panzer Army), his chief of staff, the commander of the 5th Panzer Army, the commander 7th Panzer Army, etc. They have confirmed what I stated in the previous post. The Panzer divisions were all understrength in material and missing a lot of elements. Normandy/Bagration killed or wounded, in many units, up to half of the original Officer/NCO nucleus in these divisions.

The Kampfwert rating is not referring to Panzer Mark III/IV, but towards the overall quality of the division. It was a classification that the German staff officers used to evaluate the rehabilitation of their units. For instance, during Barbarrossa, the Panzer divisions were rated K- I. I/II rating were classifications indicating that the division was ready for offensive operations.

Even the SS Panzer divisions were rated III/IV in the offensive. Whatever achievements the Germans achieve... it was mainly thanks to surprise and the initial American disorganization.

 

why has no one berated hodges or bradley for this defence of the ardennes anyway?.the germans could never attack there could they?.cheers..

 

Too true 4th Wilts....Theres no way they can come thru there sir...General Gamelin to General Georges....hang on....whoops a daisy.

 

My father was stationed at a medium bomber airfield some fifty miles south of Luxembourg city. On the 18th or 19th he spent a cold wet day leading his ordinance section around the countryside in search of a stray plane load of German teenagers. The untrained Luftwaffe pilots scattered the paras all over the Ardennes & south to the French border. For some 48 hours the rear area units were preoccupied with with converting 80,000 Fallschmirjager into 800 prisoners. The panic was so great my fathers airmen did not get a hot lunch that day & ate cold rations in the woods

 

I don't think there were 80,000 FG troops. If I remember correctly, there was only 1300 at most led by Col Von der Heyte and the horrendous weather and thick clouds added to the drop failure. He managed to only collect 300 troops into a battlegroup with only enough ammo for two or three engagements.

 

On the cover of that book, is that a captured German tank painted in US colors?!

 

that's a German Pzkw Mk V Panther. The turret is a bit different though so I make it an artist's mistake but definitely a Panther

 

The first use of the King Tiger in the west was during Operation Goodwood in Normandy, the Germans lost at least two them in the battle, one when it was rammed by a British Sherman tank.

 

hehe, I remember that incident

 

Its a German Panther tank disguised as a US M10 tank destroyer. A small number were used in the battle, they don't seemed to have achieved much.

 

The application of the King Tiger battalion during the battle of the bulge was abysmal, as it was totally wrong to use it in offensive action. Something like half the battalion was lost, and almost entirely to fuel shortages and mechanical problems though they did provide good service in a few situations.

 

As I understand it, the 1st and 12th SS Panzer were a battalion short on tanks so King Tigers were dispatched to bring them to strength.

The funny M10 belonged to Skorzeny's 150 Pz. Bde. which fought the US 30th Inf. Div. in Ardennes. They lost the engagement after the Americans called down TOT artillery fire with promximity fused shells.

During the Bulge there was one infamous captured Sherman tank that the Germans actually used to good effect. It led the point of the German colum to confuse the US infantry, allowing the panzers to drive into their positions and fire at the defenders at point-blank range. Two towns were overran this way. Latter, a M36 knocked out a M4 tank owned by the Germans after a short gunnery duel. They might have been the same tank.

 

The King tigers were almost useless in the Ardennes fighting, as the overwhelming majority didn't even get to be used in action. They spent most of their time breaking down/running out of fuel while they struggled to advance behind the 1 SS Panzer Korps.

Captured shermans were used to good effect, and I believe the example you stated may have been by KG Peiper

 

I think that beside wheather conditions and pore infrastucture the fact that there was a even fierce battle going on in the Alzace which called upon difficult political and tactical decissions, which as I can imagine could have forces the allied command to keep the oppurtunity open to divert the major part of the counter attack in to the direction of Strassbourg and set-up a second front behind the difficult to pass Ardenne terrain using the Maas river as natural defend.

p.s being on this forum is new to me, but it's interesting to see that there's still so much interrest in this very important part of history.
thank you for letting me participate.