Discussion in 'Leaders of World War 2' started by McRis, Nov 5, 2006.
Might I point out that Keith Park kicked Kesselrings butt, no once but twice :lol:
Indeed, when it comes to reorganizing a routing army and putting it back into a decent defensive position I would pick Model every time.
Probably because his name as a nice " ring " to it ! :grin:
Keith park is a good case but , like chuikov , his defence was a one off event ,
Model was many things but his defensive record is not perfect , his front got broken in july 43 and in july 44 .
Heinrici Heinrici Heinrici :bang: the best defender in history just see in history moscow, smolensk, seelow
True, but he restored it both times. This is most impressive especially in 1944, considering that Armeegruppe Mitte had been completely obliterated.
I'm going to have to disagree with saying Kesselring, I've been to Cassino a few times and from my experience, a monkey could defend those hills for at least a few months. Plus breaking 3 defensive lines(Gustav, Hitler & Gothic) in 12 months(Jan. '44-45) as understaffed as the "D-Day Dodgers" were, I'd say they made Kesselring look silly, but that is of course only my opinion.
As for the greatest defender, I would give that honor to the pilots who defended Britain in 1940.
How often did Model take over a defense after the assault was (or already had) running out of steam?
How many al out offensive thrusts did he actually fight off?
He fought off Market-Garden for one...
A great amount of organizational skill is required to mop up a front as completely shattered as that in the East in mid-1944 or the West in late 1944. Admittedly this does not make him a great combat general or a classic hero, but he still earns a lot of respect.
In Cauldrons defense
I luv wiki!!
The key word being "almost".
Like Braden43 said, most of Italy is ideal defensive terrain. He may have fought bravely against the Allies for these twenty months, but we must not forget that the Italian campaign was basically a more or less organized retreat all the way.
Though admirable initiatives, these issues are no concern of generals.
They are if you're likely to be tried as a war criminal... I believe Kesselring was tried and escaped execution by the skin of his arse, due in part to his generally (and relatively!) honorable conduct...
Such a luxury would not have been reserved for Kesselring, "The Butcher of Rome" :grin:
He didn't even come close.
The RAF had more operational fighters than it started the BOB with on the change of targets from the airfields to London, and it was Kesselring who wanted to change the attack from the airfields to London in the first place.
MaCarthur would be my choice. He held the Japanese off for a couple of months in the Phillipinnes. Kept Port Moresby from being captured over land and made Australia impossible for the Japanese to invade.
When the Japanese crossed Owen Stanley Ridge where something more than walking skeletons. Their supply lines had to pass through the mountain using a very dangerous and small track. In fact, the Japanese where so exhausted that were not fit to mount any kind of an assault to Port Moresby. So, not really an achievement.
Further more, it took the allies months(up until January '43) to push the Japanese away and take control of Owen Stanley and the coastal towns of Buna ,Gona and Sanananda.
MaCarthur still prevailed, he was the best defensive(Phillipines), offensive(island hopping), theater commander (western pacific) and administrator(Japan) in WWII, just happened to be in a sideshow. Just my opinion.
Actually without McArthur the defence of the Phillipines could have gone much better. More food, for one thing. Or just better utilisation of the existing defences. The only reason they lasted as long as they did was that the Japanese replaced the units attacking the last US defensive positions on Bataan with 2nd rate troops.
In offense he was roughly on a par with General Mark Clark who fought in Italy. Not particularly bad, just nothing stellar.
As for being a theatre commander, his demands for more action in the Phillipines split US resources and essentially slowed down the island-hopping campaign that actually lead to the end of the war. Basically, he channelled important resources into a sideshow in order to preserve his media image. :roll:
His actions in Japan post-war I'll give you, but that has nothing to do with his military ability.
Above all, this is the guy who wanted to get the US involved in a real, all-out war with Red China in the 1950s...
in my opinion the best defender is the comander ( i forgot his name) who set up the kursk defence. they only had 4 months to set up the defence. the defence line held against the germans. the Germans have broken ohter defenive lines that had much more time to set up ex Maginot line and the Stalin line.
That would be the STAVKA with joukov and vasilievsky in overall command
rokossovsky opposite model in the northside ( central front ) did very good ,
vatutin opposite hoth in the southside ( voronej front ) had a hard time of it
especially against the brand new SS corp ,
all together there was five fronts involved and a double counterattack
plus tolbukin in the far south lanching a spoiling attack across the mius river
the german command suffered its third strategic defeat ,
it now would fight battles it could not afford
i think it would be the siege of Lenningrad, lasting, i think, three years