Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Best fighter of WW2

Discussion in 'Weapons & Technology in WWII' started by dasreich, Jul 17, 2002.

  1. LeatherneckAg

    LeatherneckAg Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    2
    People often forget that the P-51D didnt come into relatively late in the war, and was most significant because it could carry the fuel to escort bombers deep into Germany. The P-47 came out earlier and was excellent in close-air support as well as air combat. However, when looking at the entire war from 1939, the BF-109 was arguably the best. Only the Spitfire could match it until the P-47's arrived.

    As for the Pacific theatre, the Hellcat gave the U.S. a fighter thatc could hang with the A6M Zero and changed the course of the air war, so it takes the cake in the Pacific.
     
    SMLE shooter likes this.
  2. SMLE shooter

    SMLE shooter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    21
    F4U Corsair.JMHO:)
     
  3. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
    Merlin less reliable than the Allison. True even today. I don't know how accurate he was, but my neighbor who flew P-38's in Pacific said the Merlin threw oil. Even showed me a photo from Reno of a Mustang with oil all over the sides. A legendary motor nonetheless.

    The Merlin was generally more temperamental and less reliable than the Allison,

    Rolls-Royce V1650 Merlin Engine


    Mustang did well, but had issues. Very fast for an early mid 44 fighter, but climb was poor compared to late 44 model Spits & 109's.

    This link should make many cheery.

    The P-51 (C.C. Jordan; CDB100620)

    It was not uncommon to have almost 30 percent of
    P-51 sorties aborted for mechanical reasons during the winter and spring of
    1944 (typical abort rate for all causes for all USAAF aircraft was 8 percent).
     
  4. Heidi

    Heidi Dishonorably Discharged

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    24
    Disagree, Merlin Rolls-Royce Engine replace the Allison engine,the plane flew much better. I have read this information but i have to dig it up again.

    The best Fighters.

    British- Supermarine Spitfire MK LFIXe Clipped wing Fighter.
    German- Focke Wulf FW-190 Fighter-If the German pilots are train for it of cause.
     
  5. lwd

    lwd Ace

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    12,322
    Likes Received:
    1,245
    Location:
    Michigan
    If you take all the roles that the various fighters had to perform during the war then give them a rate by how well they could peform the various rolls even if you weight the rolls (with some sort of reasonable weights) the German and British fighters will not have the highest score. Averaging in 0's just lowers your score too much.
     
  6. redcoat

    redcoat Ace

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,523
    Likes Received:
    142
    In terms of air to air combat and the number of enemy aircraft shot down the best US aircraft was the P-51, followed by the F6F Hellcat, the Allied aircraft with the most victories was the Spitfire, but the fighter with the most victories in WW2 was the BF 109.
     
    JCFalkenbergIII likes this.
  7. Triple C

    Triple C Ace

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,599
    Likes Received:
    230
    I can't dicuss the climb rate of the P-51, but considering the bird was a dominating high altitude fighter with superb range, would that really be a problem? Starting from high altititude gives you SA. Good dive & speed gives you good escape.

    Most 109s won't be able to keep up with the P-51 with higher speed turns.
     
  8. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
    Disagree, Merlin Rolls-Royce Engine replace the Allison engine,the plane flew much better.

    Better for speed, not for reliability.

    As to climb, it is relevant for dogfighting, to fight in the vertical requires climbing. Mannock & MVR can vouch for that. & there are accounts of 109's outurning Mustang & vice versa.
     
  9. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
    & Mustang C dove better than D model. & a G-10 would outdive a G-6.


    Through the eyes of the enemy - possibly Me 109 G:
    "My flight chased 12 109s south of Vienna. They climbed and we followed, unable to close on them. At 38,000 feet I fired a long burst at one of them from at least a 1000 yards, and saw some strikes. It rolled over and dived and I followed but soon reached compressibility with severe buffeting of the tail and loss of elevator control. I slowed my plane and regained control, but the 109 got away.
    On two other occasions ME 109s got away from me because the P 51d could not stay with them in a high-speed dive. At 525-550 mph the plane would start to porpoise uncontrollably and had to be slowed to regain control. The P 51 was redlined at 505 mph, meaning that this speed should not be exceeded. But when chasing 109s or 190s in a dive from 25-26,000 it often was exceeded, if you wanted to keep up with those enemy planes. The P 51b, and c, could stay with those planes in a dive. The P 51d had a thicker wing and a bubble canopy which changed the airflow and brought on compressibility at lower speeds."
    - Robert C.Curtis, American P-51 pilot.
     
  10. Heidi

    Heidi Dishonorably Discharged

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ok,that's fine.

    Would you care to mention the engine and fighter you think it's best during ww2.
    Just want to learn more:D
     
  11. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
    I wouldn't pick the MK 14 Spit for the reasons below. T.A 152 was a hot kite, but for machines that came in numbers, Dora a good choice. Bearcat was best US kite, just a bit too late.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1. Griffon motor main bearings. The RAE commented on the Griffon 65 engine in Tech. Note No. Eng. 316 from July 1944 "Due to main bearing troubles, these engines are at present limited to + 21 lb./sq.in. boost pressure although they will be capable of operation at +25 lb./sq.in. boost pressure in the future". Spitfire Mk XIV versus Me 109 G/K

    2. Dive Pullout. According to Johnnie Johnson pulling out of a dive was a violent experience.

    3. Torque-trim. Mk. XIV was faster than earlier marks and the torque of the propeller was high that it took constant trimming of the controls during flight. During flight with increasing speed it became increasingly tail-heavy and had to be trimmed nose fully down in order to maintain level flight.

    4. Elevator control. The elevator control of the Spitfire XIV was found to be much heavier than that of the Spitfire VIII, unpleasantlly so, and the other controls felt to be slightly heavier than on previous Spitfire Mks. The elevators also require more frequent trimming than in a Spitfire IX.

    5. Engine handling. Engine handling is a little more inconvenient because of the recurring trimming changes to elevators and rudder. The aircraft does not therefore handle quite so well as the Spitfire IX near the ground.

    Spitfire Mk XIV Testing


    6.Throttle control. The movement of the throttle lever was made longer, because it had always been the same as it was on K5054 back in 1936, where the output of the engine was only half of the Mk. XIV. When the throttle lever was moved just a little bit forward it gave an enormous change of power thus making it very difficult to adjust the power setting.


    7. Wing wrinkling. From the beginning the wings were of the normal type, however, soon they were clipped because the heavier wing load caused the skin near the fuselage to wrinkle.

    http://www.spitfire.dk/chapter3.htm1.

    Add to that the torque-takeoff issues, & the cannon being 20 feet apart, & that would make 9.


    In addition, post war trials showed the aircraft's Griffon engine had to be routinely replaced after 40 hours of operation, That makes 10.

    & yes, any fighter can have a similiar list assembled, but as to late war fighters, the Dora would have a much shorter list. Lack of high altitude speed, 70 mph stall, ( according to Eric Brown), & not so spectacular turn would make 3.
     
  12. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
    So which one was the best. Jets aside...

    1940. 109 & Zero,( Spits had carbs & couldn't fly upsidown & fixed pitch props). Zero very manueverable, but not as fast as 109 & technologically speaking, 109 more advanced. Zero had better range however.
    1941. 109 F Eric Brown thought so.
    1942. FW 190 A & G-2 109
    1943. Spit 9, La-5FN
    1944. Mustang C, Dora, P-38 J to L. ( early 44 Mustang, late 44 38 & Dora).
    1945. T.A. 152

    45-46 Bearcat, Seafury.


    http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/ ... c32f8f.htm
    The XF8F-1 Bearcat was the star of the fighter competition held at NAS
    Patuxent that October, where it outflew everything it went up
    against, including the Spitfire XIV and P-51H, flying rings around
    the captured A5M5b Zero in attendance.
     
  13. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
    One could make the argument the Mosquito MK IX to Mk XVI was the best fighter of 43. Could do just about anything. Bomb Berlin, attack U-boats, & the Germans didn't have answers for it til 44. The question is, was it a fighter?


    Despite an initially high loss rate the Mosquito ended the war with the lowest loss rate of any aircraft in RAF Bomber Command service. The RAF found that when finally applied to bombing, it had proved 4.5 times cheaper than the Lancaster in terms of useful damage done

    De Havilland Mosquito - Article from FactBug.org - the fast Wikipedia mirror site
     
  14. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    6,132
    Likes Received:
    898
    Location:
    Phoenix Arizona
    Are we going to count pre-production prototypes or just operational aircraft? Apparently Chrome counts the former by including the Ta 152, F8F and Seafury.

    If this is so, then I'd say for 1944 - 45 the two winners hands down are in order:

    The XP-72. Climbs over a mile a minute, has a top speed exceeding 500 mph in the operational form and over 470 mph in prototype status. Still has the high roll rate of other P-47 derivatives and is certainly more than capable of flying circles around a Ta 152 or Dora.

    The Martin Baker MB 5. Another outstanding winner that didn't get produced.

    By 46 its all about jets.
     
  15. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
    Not exactly, The T.A. 152, Bearcat & Seafury WERE operational, XP 72 & MB 5 never were.


    I dunno if MB 5 solved the vibrational probs associated with contrarotating props, but my neighbor who flew P-38's in pacific & worked for Lockheed for 30 yrs said they never worked out those probs stateside.
     
  16. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
  17. Heidi

    Heidi Dishonorably Discharged

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    24
    Argreed. Mosquito turn out to be faster and reliable on most jobs,same too as the German fighter *sutka*.Sutka was just as good as the Mosquito.
     
  18. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    6,132
    Likes Received:
    898
    Location:
    Phoenix Arizona
    Wrongo bunky.

    The Ta 152 was pressed into service in very limited numbers. It remained essentially a prototype undergoing operational testing. Just a handful of the C model flew while the H model amounted to well less than 100 in service. Even then, these aircraft rarely flew simply because of the multitude of problems that cropped up in their use.
    Had the Germans not been desperate the Ta 152 wouldn't have seen service at all. The Germans would have spent the better part of another year working out all the bugs.
    The Bearcat didn't see operational service. VF 19 began to equip with the F8F on 21 May 1945 and didn't reach operational status until after the war ended.
    The Seafury, likewise saw no operational service before the war ended. The first prototype Seafury flew on 21 Feb 1945. The second prototype (fully navalized s/n SR666) flew on October 12 1945 well after the war ended.
     
  19. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
    No Dice Spunky. Both Bearcat & Seafury saw service, ( albeit after the war), & XP 72 & MB 5 saw no service whatsoever. You stand corrected.

    T.A. 152 flew in combat during the war. Wrongo for you.
     
  20. chromeboomerang

    chromeboomerang New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    4
    No Dice Spunky. Both Bearcat & Seafury were operational, ( albeit after the war. Bearcat saw action with the French), & XP 72 & MB 5 saw no service whatsoever. You stand corrected.

    T.A. 152 flew in combat during the war. Wrongo for you.
     

Share This Page