Best man-mobile and low tech AA-gun?

I was thinking what might be the best mobile AA-gun? By mobile I mean it can be pulled by small group of soldiers or one horse. Also it shouldn't need any external powersource or even fuel to run generators. Any ideas or opinions?

 

If you mean from any period, I'd say that the RPG-7 will probably take the price.

 

Yes, I mean from any period but I also mean Anti-Aircraft -gun, not Anti-Armour -gun. :lol:
And I also mean gun, no missiles etc.

 

The Flakvierling 38 was destructive, fairly light and could be fitted to almost any vehicle, as well as hidden in almost any location. But it wasn't exactly man-portable...

 

Apparently that flakvierling 38 weighted 1500kg but was that weight with or without trailer? 1500kg + trailer weight gets a bit heavy for man-pulled, on hard and flat ground it might be pulled for some distance but not very far.

 

I like the Bofors 40 mm gun. Good rate of fire, hard-hitting shell, mechanically reliable...it don't get much better than that!

 

Bofors was good but as far as I know, it was even heavier than flakvierling. And ROF wasn't that good, atleast with basic models. It was accurate and surely had heavyhitting shell.

 

There were several 20mm single-barrel AA mountings which would qualify, and could be pulled along by one man. The FlaK 38 was one, so was the Madsen and the Swiss FMK38. The Oerlikon Type S was also available in a ground mounting, although it's more famous as a naval AA gun. All of these were WW2 vintage.

The Russian 14.5mm KPV is another possibility - available just after WW2 in single, twin or quad mountings. Less destructive than a 20mm, but a very high velocity giving a good hit probability. Unlike the ones mentioned above, it's still around, and still quite dangerous to helos.

I think that modern 20mm are too big and heavy to be easily towed around by one man, since the mountings are generally power-operated to give them the fast slew rates needed to track high-speed aircraft.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

 

Well, I was trying to find out if there is something better than one candidate. This candidate is one of the most numerous AA-gun still in use, weighting just under one ton, has more firepower than flakvierling 38, doesn't require any powersource (besides operators). Can be pulled by small amount of men (operators). Guess what it is?

(I know this should have been in quiz-section but...)
Edit: and there it goes, here you can find my post about this gun with picture.

 

Ok, it is Russian zu-23-2 twin barreled AA-gun.
950kg, 2x23mm guns with 2x 900-1000 rpm. Doesn't need any external powersource because it is totally hand-cranked. Can be pulled by small group of men (minimun 2, preferred 5-6).

Is there any better mobile low-technology AA-gun?

 

Mobile is relative. What can be pulled along flat, level ground cannot necessarily be towed up hills, across ploughed fields etc. The ZU was a fine gun but not really man-portable for any more than a few yards.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

 

I generally agree with you, ZU is actually quite easy to pull along flat, hard & level surface. Also mediocre hills are doable. What really kills its mobility is soft surface. But still it can be pulled even along soft surface, thought its very heavy and slow thing to do. Thats why I'd like to know if there is an AA-gun which can beat ZU's mobility without sacrificing too much firepower.

 

I think you guy's are getting over complicated.

Best low tech, man portable AA system is a whole bunch of guys with AK-47s. It is, as one of my wargaming acquaintances so eloquently puts it, the wall-o-shite approach.

 

Unfortunatelly AK-47 lacks punch to really scare of modern combat helicopters and jets.

 

I was reading a book by a chap who was in the Falklands - apparently his squad was in a landing craft-type vessel on it's way from ship to shore, when the Argentinians launched an air raid. His boat was on their approach path, so his squad braced their weapons on the side of the boat at a steep upwards angle & fired. According to him they hit one plane, causing enough damage to make it jettison bombs & fly home.

But, as Notmi points out, this would have bog-all effect on, say, a Hind, or Apache, or even a Hueycobra.

 

What was it that forced that squadron of Apaches to turn tail and head for home after they were ambushed during the Iraq invasion? All of them sustained damage of one sort or another, I believe, but I'm not sure what calibres of weapons were involved.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

 

Technically the Apache is armoured to withstand anything up to 23mm cannon fire, so it was probably a proper AA gun of 23mm or above.
However, claims & testing is one thing, combat experiance is another...

The Hind did have a very good record for being impervious to small-arms fire in Afghanistan.

 

Ricky, I believe Apache has the ability to withstand hits from rounds up to 23mm in critical areas.
A bit same goes with Kamov Ka-50, its cockpit is armoured against 23mm gunfire (cockpit glass: 12.7-mm MG). Still, you can damage these copters with smaller guns.

I've heard story about afghanistans shooting down Hinds from above when Hinds were down in the alley. Apparently it doesn't have that much armour in the upper part of the fuselage.

 

Technically it's not an artillery, but a shoulder-fired RPG is cheap, highly portable, and will have no trouble taking down any low-flying helos. As for low-level ground attack A-10 or Frogfoots, anything less than 20mm caliber (maybe even 30mm) will be inadequate. How many 50 caliber bullets will it take to take down a A-10?

 

the best home made one is a fire-work with tennis ball bombs attached launched from a a lead pipe wide only one end open