Discussion in 'Tank Warfare of World War 2' started by tj, May 14, 2004.
Damn your failing memory Ricky, you helped design it!
I said about the Red Baron, beacuse there were a number of people that claimed to have shoot him. And they did shoot at his aircraft, but who actually killed him is yet unknown for sure. If a firefly killed Wittman, then the crew have some names. It would have been a true propaganda coup to have a Firefly killing Wittman (especially after Viller-Bocage).
Again, a tank has only limited elevation and deprecion of the gun. Is not usefull to fire HE al short range unless it would be direct fire. What is the range that the firefly shot from?
But I don't want to turn this thread in a Wittman thread. If there is one on this forum, let's go there. if not, let's make one.
There are several topics about Tank aces on the forums that revolve purely around Wittmann. For example try this one:
confirmed the post war jaguar does definately look like a ww11 german tank destroyer, just that no main gun only a hot or tow. I wonder whether its still serving.
I'm afraid this question has nothing to do with the topic, but a long-time question of mine got jogged by seeing the Jaguar with its Panther-like road wheel arrangement. Has anyone on the forum ever talked to an old Panzermann who had to put the track back on after one of those suckers threw a track. It looks to me as though it might be more difficult to throw a track but a real bear to put it back on.
I can't see Panther being any more difficult (or easy!) than most other tanks, the track is "split", pulled over the top run (or the tank drives the track round using the sprocket) and then pinned together again. Providing the track horns are lined up with the gaps betwen the inner and outer roadwheels there shouldn't be a great fuss. Merlin might have a better idea of the process and difficulty.
Lonewolf: The Raketenjagdpanzer Jaguar 2 is a German tank destroyer equipped with anti-tank guided missiles. Between 1983 and 1985 162 Jaguar 2 have been built for the Bundeswehr out of obsolete Kanonenjagdpanzer by removing the 90mm gun and adding a manually reloaded launcher for TOW 1 missiles and more armour. Starting with 1989 the missiles have been replaced with TOW 2s. (Wikipedia). So presumably some at least are still serving. And if they're converted JPzK 90s then they used to have guns but the 90 would be pretty limited in usefulness now. Wonder how they'd do with Rheinmetall 120 L/55
Pictures at http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/jaguar1.htm
For those of us that are interested, the Kanonenjagdpanzer looks remarkably like a hetzer hull stretched to fit a Panther chassis.
I have seen one in motion, at a Bovvie Events day
A hetzer streched to look like a Panther then it becomes exactly like a jagdPanther, my point being is that if the jagdpanther was not such a good tank destroyer why copy the hull design into the Jaguar.
ALthough the silloutte is much lower, for the jaguar almost less then a mans height.
But they did not.
The Jagdpanther has a definate 'step' down to the engine after the fighting compartment ends, whereas the Hetzer (and Jaguar) do not.
Ok, so I'm an idiot. :roll:
Here is a comparison of the side-views of the 3 (the Kanonenjagdpanzer is the middle one) - these are not to scale.
Yup, it is basically a modified Jadgpanther
By the way, I think the Jaguar looks more like the Jagdpanzer IV L/70 than like the Hetzer.
Oh bugger - Roel, I am sorry, I hit 'edit' instead of 'quote'.
I have removed my additions, but sadly most of your post went when I 'quoted'
And more like a squashed Jagdpanther than a Jagdpanzer IV L/70
That's an L/48, though.
Thanks for editing my post... I was saying that the Jagdpanther didn't really have any disadvantages as a tank destroyer, and that it was the Hetzer that was recieving criticism here.
The Jagdpanzer was said to be a fearsome tank destroyer. A pity it does not have a revolving turret.
Which "Jagdpanzer" do you mean? Giving some of the models a turret would essentially turn them into normal German WWII era tank.
Yeah, the Jagdpanther leaves about every other tank destroyer with a slug in the superstructure. But, one of the runner-ups might have been the M18 Hellcat, the fastest tracked vehicle in WWII. Top speed: 55mph. It also had a good gun (76mm, 55 calibers long, about the same length as the Tiger Is gun). The M10 Wolverine would probably be another one
Armament was the standard 76mm M1A1 - also found on late Shermans. It was a decent gun to be sure, but not really comparable to the 88mm L/56, and definitely not comparable to the 88mm L/71 of the Jagdpanther. Since the M18's armour was so thin, its only real advantage over other tank destroyers was speed.
I'd elect either the Jadgpanzer or the Su-100
Which Jagdpanzer? And I agree, the SU-100 shares first place with the Jagdpanther for my sake.
In my mind there is only ONE jagdpanzer The Sdkfz 173