Best tank of WWII

I love the "Stewie". The perfect tank for the early Pacific battles. Also used very successfully as a way to rescue wounded soldiers by blocking incomming small arms fire, and riding out the critically injured.
The "Brits" loved it to, because of as you say, re-con, and of course, it's speed. The 37 wasn't that much of a difference to the 2-pounder (neither was the armor) in other British tanks in early desert battles.
The 5 was different, improved design/armor. Agreed the 37 was pretty much usless except for the "canister shot" used against personel. Ilulu (Tenuru) river (sp) on Gaudalcanal for example.
A necessary vehicle in almost every army!

 

Just words
I've heard people speak of shot traps. Many tanks had these. For example Panther (until the chin on the "G" models), The Stalins, T-34/85, even the Pershing. M-10/M-36 (not that you needed to go there to get one). If you're that good of a shot, just put one through the vision port of your choice. Accuracy did increase on all sides as the war progressed. I've many pictures of shots at the "Cupola" of German tanks. These are no stray rounds, take out the commander and the tank is paralized (if only for a little while). A chance for anyone to do anything to it for a little while, and often times a little while is long enough.
Soon enough the Armored Fist, and the Armored Terror would eliminate the need of looking for, aiming at, and hitting a special spot. Just hit it.
Belton Cooper in his book said he fired a Panzerfaust 60 at a King Tiger front plate of the turret where the mantlet connects. This area is 8 inches thick, sloped at 15 degrees. It penetrated. The larger "Hollow Charge" weapons changed everything.
Even today I see our "Strikers" "Bradleys", and even our "Abrams" all fitted with some sort of "Apron Armor". Be that mesh, plate, reactive, or sandbags/track links (as Shermans used to do). This can be credited to the Germans. Anything to break up the searing blast of these infantry weapons.
As well, give them Kudo's for a better/more effective version of the Bazooka, (a USA original I know), but todays RPG is a knock off of the German improvement.
After years of complaining (by the crews) and years of developement (by engineers) the 76.2 anti-tank gun (for the Sherman) was tested against a Panther front plate. Boasting the shell had half again as much propellant and a harder steel penetrator the developers were confident. Fired from point blank range it bounced high into the air (I assume half again as high).
Hats off to the Brits for the Piat and the Sabot in the 17 pdr. That alone put an end to a Sherman gun being worthless. Thank the stars infantry cannot fire sabot rounds from their shoulders.
Bottom line, there is no need to find a shot trap anymore, or late then either.
Just words

 

I would have to say the T34/85 . Because it was good at everything (not great) but it could do anything well. It was also produced in great numbers and was very reilable.

 

1. Pzkwf TigerII Königstiger
2.T34/85
3.M-10 Wolverine

 

I watched "A Bridge too far" again the other day, simply for all the Shermans rolling around.
Quick question, What were the German tanks "mocked up" from?
Example the "Tigers" in Kelly's Heros & Private Ryan were T-34/85s.
I can tell they were either Russian or later American because of the "rear" drive sproket.
The rear of the turret is rounded so that says M-48, or T-55.
The mantlet says M-10/M-36, as does the sloped front plate, also T-55.
The muzzel break says German.
The rear says Panther, but I know it's not.
A decent "mock-up" no doubt.
If I was to guess, I'd say M-48 because of the rise of the engine deck, and hence the rise in the back of the turret. Everything else is hidden real good.
Does anyone know for sure?

 

I think I read somewhere they were leopards.

 

In reply to Skunk,
The production notes for "A Bridge Too Far" states that the crew could only find 4 Shermans for the film. The rest were "plastic moulds" mounted on the chassis of VW Beetles. In most cases the film is staged to hide the fact that the treads don't touch the ground, but in one sequence, when a Sherman is crossing a newly finished Bailey bridge, you can see that the tank is rolling faster than the tracks are. It's pretty amusing to think that all those powerful looking tanks are disguised VWs.
As for the German armor, the notes describe one (and only one) West German Army Leopard II prototype tank that was used as a Panzer.

 

That's right - the producers used one West German Leopard II for the movie, rather feebly mocked-up to resemble a King Tiger or Panther.

 

The Tiger in 1970's Kelly's Heroes was very well done, on top of a Yugoslavian T-34. I remember I went and see the film at least three times to understand where that Tiger came from, until I identified it's running gear! No DVDs at the time, no VHS rental, no nothing. No Internet too. Jeez, am I old

On this thread, I think we should instead of speaking in absolutes it would be more interesting to divide by years, as Kai did at the beginning.

Anyway we also should discuss by what criteria we should make the classification. Firepower? Protection, Mobility, Reliability? A weighted mix of these?

Also it would be funny to discuss the Worst tank of WW2

 

No kidding, V-Dubs. I have it on DVD so I'll slo-mo it and have a look.
The "Panzer" had a single tri-angle hatch on the front which looked like it swung around on one pin (after popping up). Definately a German design.
On those lines I heard that Panther crews left these hatches open because they were too difficult to open in a hurry, (If they got hit)on "D" & "A" versions, even in combat. Improvements were incorporated on the "G" models.
I see M-24 Chaffee tanks and M-10's (on fire & wrecked) in the show. I'll look for the tracks not moving and off the ground.
Leopard II, thanks for the info!

 

I see what you mean. They're very carefull not to show more than 3 Shermans at a time.
The "Funnies" are always unmaned and the hatches are always closed.
They appear to be somewhat fatter than they should be and the tracks and running gear are usually covered by something.
Right after the anti-tank gun bushwack scene is over, there are 3 "Funnies" together with soldiers walking around them.
You can see (in slo-mo) the rollers and they are skinny and single. The tanks appear to be inflated.
No personell are on them, and the hatches are closed/non existant (it would let the air out).
That got by me for many years! I'm so ashamed.
A good mock up to fool me, since most movies can be easily picked apart for the substitutions being obvious.
I'll never watch it the same way again.

 

haha, you really got to know what to look for while watching a movie... sometimes its so good you forget...

 

Always does help in these "best tank" discussions! There are a few factors to take into account, so clarifying the "parameters" of the discussion would help.

I'd say the best example would be Panther vs. T/34 (either version). One-on-One, it's hard to argue with the Panther being the best tank of the war. The gun, the armor, optics, mobility, etc.- the late model Panthers had pretty much the best of all those. BUT- if you also consider economy and ease of production- all of a sudden the T/34s gain a huge jump in the "ratings".

And then if you consider things like reputation and maybe something like "psychological effect"- well, then dosen't the Tiger come into the picture as well? I don't think any tank was more well-known and feared by it's adversaries throughout the war than the Tiger I.

And on movie mock-ups- it's been a while (too long) since I've seen it, but the german vehicles in Saving Private Ryan deserve some huge credit. Those were some great look-alikes- especially considering not only a Tiger I, but the various halftracks and at least one open-topped tank destroyer (wasn't it a Marder II?)

 

And of course, one should take into consideration the question of how many were actually produced....

( )

 

Well played, Martin! I'll always get that one in here, eh?

But- you might want to sit down for this- despite some unexplained (unexplainable?) disagreements within sources, I've come to the conclusion the Jentz is probably the most spot on, as he used the actual factory records- probably the best bet.
(Although does that account for produced but not assembled Tigers?)
((sorry, had to! ))

To avoid a hijack- I've gotta post back on-topic after any mention of production numbers- would the best Tank Destroyer also be a sub-section of this discussion? PzJgr mentioned the StuG earlier in the thread, I'd think a top contender. But the Hetzers for their absolutely miniature size yet good gun, and the SU122 or 152 for sheer firepower. And I guess-even with the turret- the M10 would count in this category too...

Sheesh, now that I'm back from the trip, I've got so damn much reading and brushing up on the already-read sources to do!

 

..and the Jagdpanther as undoubtedly best - looking ...

 

Oh, I'd have to disagree there- the Ferdinand/Elephant has such "charm" to it!

 

Well, let's put it this way - if both were on my company car choice list, I'd go for the Jagdpanther !

 

So this is now about the sexiest tank or tank destroyer? IF we are going to go there the Italians might acturally get some exposure.

 

He he, sorry, but the SU 122, SU 152, Ferdinand, Jagdpanther, M10 are not tanks, they're tank destroyers!

Jumping into a foxhole...