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Best Tank Units

Discussion in 'Tank Warfare of World War 2' started by Canadian_Super_Patriot, Mar 24, 2005.

  1. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Patton started his offensive with three American divisions (4th Armoured, 80th and 26th Infantry) on December 22nd, later to be joined by 35th Infantry division as well. Preventing them from reaching Bastogne itself was 5th Fallschirmjäger division, hardly worthy of that name because it was a unit built around the officer corps that remained after the Normandy campaign and none of its men had ever actually been in a paratrooper action. It was in fact not much better than the regular run of infantry in the Wehrmacht by that time, which is saying something; the only difference between this division and the Volksgrenadiers that Army Group B was mostly using for infantry was the veteran officer corps and the myth of being paratroopers that the soldiers of the 5th FJ held for themselves. Yet it took three fresh American divisions no less than four days to breach their lines and reach the encircled 101st AB division.

    In fact the entire much hailed "breakthrough" involved three tanks of 37th Tank Bn which had met up with the 101st in the outskirts of the town. Not until the following day (december 27th) did the gap really mean anything in terms of supply flowing through. And even holding on to this corridor proved problematic once the Germans brought in the 15th Panzergrenadier division which started pushing against the American lines facing westward that same day; for about a week the corridor could barely be widened as the Germans pulled in more and more troops and the 5th FJ refused to lose its unit coherence.

    In short, the breakthrough was not a feat of strength or skill by 4th Armoured division, it was a combined effort of three American divisions to throw enough weight against a weak German line for enough time to make it break. That it did in the end is no surprise; that it took four days is a serious disappointment.
     
  2. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    3 to 1 odds is generally recognized as the minimum desirable when on the attack so that seems about right to me.
    You are the expert on the Ardennes offensive so I must be wrong but what happened to the 2nd Panzer division and the Panzer Lehr division and the 26th Volks Grenadier division? Weren't they all involved in the fighting in and around Bastogne?
     
  3. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    Besides , the relief of Bastogne was only one incident in 11 months of almost constant fighting. The 4th Armored division was one of Pattons favorites thus the spearhead for the Third Army much of the time and the 37th Tank battalion was often the tip of that spear.
     
  4. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Yes, this is certainly true. However, when you have a good numerical advantage and when facing an inferior opponent, I won't exactly call a unit "elite" when it takes it four days to break through. I'm not saying it wasn't an accomplishment at all, it simply wasn't that great an action.
    They were, at some point. All were part of 47th Panzer Corps.

    The 26th VG was constantly involved, being more or less the 101st Division's nemesis and holding more than half of the German line encircling Bastogne (mostly in the north, northeast and west). However this division was largely overstretched and it would attack only when supported, such as in the North where they had supporting units from Panzer Lehr. This armoured division, however, was also occupied further west, trying to reach the Meuse and supporting the flank of 2nd Panzer division which, after December 18th IIRC, was storming westward and therefore no longer involved in the fighting around Bastogne.

    When Patton attacked the Germans really only had 5th FJ, 26th VG and Panzer Lehr in the area; among the units brought in between 22nd and 26th December were the 79th Volksgrenadier, the 9th Volksgrenadier and the 15th Panzergrenadier already mentioned. Of these units only the last formed a significant threat to the American units holding the town.
     
  5. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    Roel wrote:
    Still that is significantly different than facing one parachute division with three to one odds. The relief of Bastogne was only a small part of the fighting around that section. The corridor opened by the relief had to be kept open and widened and the fighting in this area was crucial to stopping the German offensive. From then until the end of the war the 4th division was in the forefront of the fighting.
     
  6. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Patton's units faced only the 5th FJ. I should probably have made it more clear that all the units I mentioned above fought around the encirclement, inward, on other sides than that which caught the full blow of Patton's counterattack, and were not subsequently involved in the defence of that area.

    Feats of Strength, US Armoured divisions, Ardennes Offensive (16 Dec 1944 - 28 Jan 1945)
    - 9th Armoured division, spread out over a frontline of 60 kilometers, split up in its three CCs, held out together with the 28th Infantry in many places to cause the delay that was vital to the eventual stopping of the German offensive. I must admit I don't have details but any unit retaining coherence in the initial onslaught, to me, deserves this recognition.
    - 10th Armoured division, of which one CC was sent to Bastogne on December 17th as a first "speedbump" to prevent the Germans from taking the roads leading into the city. This CC was split up in three task forces of one batallion of infantry and some tanks; each held a road for more than a day against forces at least three times their size (including 2nd Panzer division and Panzer Lehr). This unit was finally routed late on December 18th and remnants of the task forces fell back to Bastogne; German forces then pulled a Dunkirk and allowed the 101st to pour in.
    - 7th Armoured division, slugged it out with a full SS Panzer corps for four days and held its ground. Managed to retreat in full coherence from the Sankt Vith pocket on December 23rd.
    - 3rd Armoured division, filled gaps in the line over a 50 kilometer stretch, helped defeat the most well-equipped and elite unit in the German spearhead, and continued to make any advances in the northern sector impossible west of the river Salm (east was being taken care of by 5th Corps). Insisted that Montgomery start his offensive towards the south just like Patton had started his countermove towards the north; however, Monty felt that his troops weren't ready.
    - 2nd Armoured Division, singlehandedly, ignoring orders from Montgomery, crashed into the northern flank of 2nd Panzer division at Celles/Marche, facing odds of under 2 to 1 (the German unit had already taken some losses). The attack overwhelmed the Germans and completely wiped out two of the three regiments in the 2nd Panzer Division. This meant that the German spearhead was routed, the German advance westward had been cut off and the mopping up could begin. Definitely my favourite. :D
     
  7. Revere

    Revere New Member

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    2nd ss panzer divsion (the black shirt)divsion then the 3rd armored
     

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