Best tanks

The question of definitions isn't as complicated as it seems.

We are discussing here which tank was the very best of WW2. Not of a specific period, which we have discussed also at some point, but of all the war. Naturally, because much development was made during the war, the best tanks are not to be found among the earliest; they are outdated in every characteristic by models of the later war years. Therefore only late war tanks qualify in this discussion: tanks with gyrostabilization, sloped armour, wide tracks, long barrels, periscope visors, wet storage, radios, mass production possibilities, adaptability and that sort of thing.

Our defenitions of light, medium and heavy should therefore be late-war standards, those by which these tanks were judged in their own time.

 

Wow! didnt know wed all agree this easily, but wait until the americans show up

 

Oh yes, wait untill those evil Americans with their different oppinions show up. How terrible those Americans are.

Death to those who don't love the German armor, I say. Death to them all!

Leaving the mixture of sarcasm and anger behind, this deplorable attitude twords Americans and anyone who isn't either Anti-American or a die-hard fan of all things German is terrible and sickens me to no end.

 

The Panther, Tiger 2, and Tiger 1 were the best tanks in that order.

 

There is a misunderstanding here. We were actually waiting for you to show up and portray that there are different opinions out there, and that those are also well-supported, and that loving all things German isn't the only way. However, for some reason some members have transformed "Danyel Phelps" into "The Americans" in their posts, which is an unfortunate error making it look like all Americans are hardcore nationalists who will therefore only preach for American stuff. I would say primarily that you support American tanks as the best of the war, and then as an irrelevant side-fact you are also an American yourself. So what? Skua likes the Sherman, too.

Now please present your opinion to this overly Germanic forum, because we need that other voice. Thank you.

2ndLegion: please clarify your opinion, this kind of bold statement asks for a good supporting argument!

 

I also have trouble considering the Panther a medium. At 45 tons it's about 50% heavier than it's closest allied competitor, the much maligned and under-rated Sherman (M4A3 = 30 tons). The Panther was also longer, wider and higher than any Allied medium. Even the M4A3E2 "Jumbo" Sherman only weighed in at 42 tons and with the 76mm was an adequate match for the Panther.
The Soviet heavy tanks (KV-85, IS-1 & IS-2) were around 50 tons (KV-1 was 42 tons), Tiger I was about 55 tons and Tiger II was 68 tons. So the Pantehr was either the heaviest medium or the lightest heavy. I'll go with the consensus that it was a medium. With that, the heavy weight and great size of the Panther(you do need to cross bridges, ride the rails, , try to hide, etc.) and mechanical unrelaibilty aren't enough to keep it from being the best medium and all around tank of WWII.

Still, my favorite tank of WWII is the much maligned and under-rated Sherman.

 

I´m also a great fan of British tanks, whatever impression that gives you.

 

Try it being a light-hearted comment based on the fact that no American member had yet posted.
I'm not hugely anti-American ( ), nor am I a die-hard fan of all things German (you may find this shocking, but sometimes I think that the Germans didn't actually win the war), and they do not have a deplorable attitude towards me. Unless I'm denser than I thunk I woz.

Not everything in life is a challenge. Sometimes it is just humour.

 

Oh heck no, don't even try to pull this "misunderstanding" stuff on me. Don't try to justify this bold display of hate. Don’t try to sugar coat it as just a misunderstanding. Fact is, it isn’t a misunderstanding. Since day one of my arrival here there has been this deplorable hatred for Americans and anyone who thinks outside the box. I can name a handful of people who I have been downright harassed by because of my nationality, open mindedness, and religion. The other Americans who post here may be able to put up with this, and I admire that. But with all due respect, I’m fed up with it and I’m not scared to back down.

Roel, Panzerprofile, and Ricky –
Oh for the love of god, where the hell should I start with you three? I am not your attack dog. I am not some great crusader for the Allied cause who will fight your battles for you. I’m sick and tired of throwing bones to this community at your will for the pure entertainment value at my expense. No one listens to anything I say with anything closely resembling seriousness, and all three of you know it. But still, you two try and drag me into every thread where someone makes the slightest remark that might trigger a rebuttal from me.

Roel, you of all people know that I have been trying to watch myself as of late. I’ve been trying to stay out of arguments and heated debates. I have been making an honest to God attempt to keep myself under control at your and Skua’s request. The things said in this thread make one think you’re trying to drag me down to a lower level than I’m trying to achieve. “Oh, just wait until those stupid Americans come and mess up this thread” was the last @#$%ing straw. I’m not going to do this anymore. These games are boring to me now.

Bottom line: It’s over. No more hiding behind the big bad Phelps. If you want a good argument on behalf of the Allies, then do it yourself. Don’t try to drag me into it. I have said my piece earlier in this very thread. No one cared then, why the hell would it make a difference now?

 

That´s probably because you´re playing them all by yourself. No, I´m not playing a joke on you. I seriously don´t understand why you get so angry sometimes. If I were an American, I would be more concerned if people were afraid of playing the same jokes ( and rather innocent ones too ) on America as they do on every other nation of the world.

 

The Panther had the best mobility, armor, and firepower out of any World War Two Tank, and it did have good communications, and it's steering weel made it much easier to controll then it's allied competition.

The Tiget Two was inferior in the categories I mentioned only to the Panther which is why it is second place.

The Tiger was only inferior to Tiger Two and Panther.

There were times when a few Tigers would take on dozens of Shermans in France.

 

The Tiger II was inferior to the Panther in terms of armour and firepower.

Are you serious?!

Also, there are events (Danyel Phelps pointed out some in this topic) where Shermans took out Panthers. There is even one event where a regiment of Shermans (75mm ones I might add!) destroyed a whole Kampfgruppe of Panthers. In these cases, however, it is usually training and morale that did the Germans in or gave the enemy an edge over them.

I think the Panther, in its combination of mobility, armour and firepower, is the best tank of WW2. However, tanks that were any heavier and therefore often praised as the supreme rulers of the battlefield are in practice great burdens to amries using them; they are often slow, unreliable, unable to use bridges, unable to be tugged by vehicles designed to, and so on. I respect their effect upon the enemy's morale, but I doubt their real impact in battle.

 

However, such heavies are excellent if used effectively in defence.

 

As are turretless tank destroyers. No need for the complicated designs and production of turret mechanisms. The Germans did learn this lesson though, by the end of the war, which resulted in Speer's Miracle.